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August 24th, 2009, 02:01
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formerly Knyte
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G&G M4 Carbine & Carbine REC Reviews & Comparison
-----  ----- G&G M4 Carbine (Classic/Std Version) We'll start with the 'Classic' M4 Carbine. MSRP: $308.00 They are of course available for purchase through us. Initial Impressions Well, as with the AK W/S and the MP5's we have reviewed so far, the M4 Carbine came in a nicely packaged Styrofoam box.  Included in the package are: -AEG -1400mah Split Battery (Small Tamiya Head) -Wall Charger (Small Tamiya Head) -Small-Large Tamiya Adapter -Bag of BB's -Unjamming Rod -M4 Tool -Safety Glasses w/ Soft Bag -Metal Hi-Cap Magazine The gun is quite heavy, especially considering it doesn't have a rail system and has a polycarbonate lower. We don't have a scale at this time to weigh it vs. other makes but it is a good weight for the size of the weapon, it feels solid. First thing I check for when I get any new make/model in is wobble/creaks. I was pleased to find no barrel wobble, no wobble/creaking in the rear stock when pushed/pulled/twisted/extended, minimal shifting/creaking in the split front stock when squeezed/twisted, and no give between the lower and upper or upper and top rail/carry handle. I personally do not care for the special forces symbol on the lower receiver. I think it is cheesy, and would have been happier with a blank. But I don't like a lot of the 'special' engravings/symbols on the popular G&P receivers either on that note. There is also text just above the trigger on the lower receiver, reading: Complete AEG Series MFG By G&G Armament Made In Taiwan Time, for a closer look... Externals As mentioned above, there is no wobble/creaking in the components, aside from the split front stock if squeezed and twisted, which I have yet to see a stock M4 with split front stock that does not btw. The first thing I took a closer look at is the rear collapsible stock.   The stock is made from what appears to be a good quality composite. I am not sure if it is a nylon fiber or what, but it feels very solid and sturdy. The extension lever engages positively, and has a stiff spring, requiring a decent amount of force in order to manipulate. The stock tube is metal, and as well feels like a decent quality, it isn't a thin gauge as some I have seen are, and doesn't have any give/wobble. Also on the M4 Carbine is a metal sling mount with a hook-type eyelet attachment point. The pistol grip is made from a good quality composite as well, it certainly feels to me like nylon fiber, a different material than the collapsible stock anyway. Not much else to say about it really. The split front stock feels like a lower quality composite vs. the pistol grip and rear stock. It could be because it is thinner to accommodate a battery inside, but it again feels different than the pistol grip material and rear stock material. Not to say it is bad, it just doesn't seem to be as good as the other two. Everything else, sights, barrel, sling mounts, carry handle, trigger, etc. Is basically like most other brands, CA, TM, G&P, etc. The metal doesn't gouge with a fingernail like some of the monkey metal I've witnessed on other guns, it is comparable with the quality of the other major brand's metal, probably better than some.   One thing I do really dislike about the M4 Carbine is the charging handle. Firstly, unlike G&G's AK and MP5 line, the charging handle does NOT engage the bolt cover... Not a huge deal, although it is kind of a nice feature and I was expecting it to from our previous experience with the AK's and MP5's... However, I really do not like the feeling of the bolt handle when pulled back. It has a fairly weak spring on it, and a lot of movement room side to side when pulled back. It feels weak and loose is the best way to describe it. It feels like if you were to pull too hard it might break, although, the CA's that I had, which had a stronger spring on the charging handle DID break when pulled if pulled to hard and it felt like they could be pulled hard without issue, so I'm not sure which is the better way to go... Either way, with the solid, functional bolt handles on the MP5's and AK's I was disappointed with the M4's. The bolt handle itself, aesthetically is fine however. Rather than listing all the metal parts I will list the parts that are NOT metal as it will be easier: -Lower Reciever (Smoked Polycarbonate) -Collapsible Stock -Pistol Grip -Split Front Stock Annnnnndddd, everything else is, you guessed it... metal. Threading is std 14mm cc. Function The only issue I had with the function was mentioned above regarding the charging handle. Everything else works well and smoothly, mag release, fire controls, removing the lower half of the front stock for battery insertion, and after the difficulty with the MP5 forestock battery, I was pleased to find the M4 battery installation was MUCH easier. Also, the heads on the M4 Carbines are small tamiya... As you would expect them to be. We had an issue with the AK's and MP5's we had brought out to test as they all had large tamiya heads, yet the batteries G&G sends with them are all the small... Doesn't make sense to me either, but that is for another review. It feeds CA, MAG, and of course the G&G magazines just fine. We've had about 400 rds through this one and no misfeeds yet.   The hop is the standard M4 'wheel' type. It is very tight, unlike other stock M4 hops I've used, it doesn't need manual tightening which was nice. Like the other G&G's I've reviewed, it seems to have a 'sweet' spot, and anything above that will curve the bb's drastically upwards, it is not a gradual increase as most other hops are. Performance The most important aspect of any AEG imo is it's performance, second to it's reliability. It seems, that for some reason, a lot of people in the Canadian Airsoft scene think the partially clear G&G AEG's are garbage. I don't know why this idea about them exists, although it could possibly be because of the much lower price tag they have vs. their full metal counterparts, or simply because they are partially clear, which makes them more like the fully clear crapsoft that is readily available from our local CT's and WallMart's... Whatever the case may be, I have had no issues with the several G&G partially clear guns we have used on a regular basis, and all the G&G guns we have sold and tested, aside from one which had a small hairline crack in the polycarb receiver. Whereas my experience with the larger brands such as CA, TM, and G&P has been the opposite. I've owned and extensively used 7 CA full metal AEG's in the past 5 years. 2 of which, have worked perfectly, and had exceptional range/accuracy, 1 was a CA SPC, 1 was a CA Sportline (One of the original production runs) The other 5, not saying they performed badly, but they did break down, or had problems right out of the box and required replacement of parts to work. Nor have I had any issues performance wise from them. In fact, quite the opposite. I have consistently been impressed at the range/accuracy of these guns as well as their responsiveness and rates of fire. I would certainly rather carry one of these than a TM from the experiences I have had, although apparently the new generation of TM's are very decent, but I only have experience with the older generation. Either way, the performance has been above many of the large manufacturer's stock guns and has been commented on by all that have seen them in action as such. -Responsiveness The M4 Carbine had great trigger response. Not quite as snappy as the MP5G5 we had reviewed, but better than the AK W/S, which was still above average. -Rate Of Fire Again, not quite as fast as the MP5G5, but faster than the AK W/S, which was again, above average to begin with. So very good ROF. -Accuracy Accuracy is excellent, tighter and more consistent than the MP5, not quite as good as the AK W/S. Certainly on par or better than most stock M4's from other brands. There would be several things I would upgrade first before looking into accuracy upgrades, and, as I have said in my other reviews, I am big on accuracy. -Range Effective range with the hop set is about 75-100 ft depending on conditions, with .25's. We use .25 Bastards in all our testing. After 85ish feet, the bb's drop quite rapidly, but up until then, have a nice straight trajectory with little rise/fall in the path. Again not as good as the AK W/S, a bit better than the MP5G5. All in all, very skirmishable, and again, on par or better than most other stock M4's I have experienced. -Speed Didn't have the chrono at the field when we played today, but they are with Amos for internals review, so he will provide us with the speeds. I expect around 340-350 fps w/ .20's from what I saw. Reliability Well, 400rds through this one so far with no issues. Not a good test of reliability at this point, but I will update as time goes on. ALTHOUGH, I've experienced a number of 'Full Metal' AEG's from other manufacturers that have NOT even lasted 400rds... Internals The long and short of it, perfect shimming (but I don't expect that is the case on every one of these, this one must have gotten lucky), poor compression (like the other G&G's we have reviewed, not too surprised), average wiring, finish and fitment, average internals otherwise. Summary For the price, another good AEG from G&G. Spend a bit on some parts to get better compression, and maybe a new hop unit, and this will perform right up there with far more expensive guns.
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 Last edited by WARFIGHTER; August 24th, 2009 at 20:07.. |
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August 24th, 2009, 02:01
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#2 |
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formerly Knyte
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G&G M4 Carbine REC Version And now the REC version. MSRP: $260.00 Again, these are available through Warfighter Tactical. Initial Impressions The packaging, is cheap brittle plastic. Would have been a lot nicer if it is the same as their other models.  Included in the package are: -AEG -1400mah Split Battery (Small Tamiya Head) -Wall Charger (Small Tamiya Head) -Small-Large Tamiya Adapter -Bag of BB's -Unjamming Rod -M4 Tool -Metal Hi-Cap Magazine No glasses were included with this one, not sure if that was just our luck, or they do not come with glasses. I was under the impression all came with glasses. The gun is noticeably lighter than the classic version. It still feels reasonably weighted, not as 'toyish' as other AEG's I have felt which were not full metal. Feels very similar to the CA Sportline and the previous generation TM M4's. As with the classic version, I was pleased to find no barrel wobble, no wobble/creaking in the rear stock when pushed/pulled/twisted/extended, minimal shifting/creaking in the split front stock when squeezed/twisted, and no give between the lower and upper or upper and top rail/carry handle. The outer barrel itself, being plastic, has a bit of flex if some force is applied however. The lower receiver has the same symbol as the classic version, and is as far as I can tell the same material. It reads: Complete AEG Series MFG By Combat Machine Made In Taiwan Externals As mentioned above, there is no wobble/creaking in the components, aside from the split front stock if squeezed and twisted.   I'll start with the parts that look to be exactly the same as the classic version so I don't need to talk about them here: -Rear Sight -Rear Stock -Stock/Buffer Tube -Pistol Grip -Front Split Stock -Fire Controls -Trigger & Guard -Charging Handle -Sling Mounts The rest of the parts, are composite. The only part that really looks plastic when examined closely is the outer barrel, it has a bit of gloss to it whereas the other parts needs to be physically gone over to see if they are composite or metal. But here is a list of the plastic/composite parts and the general feel of their quality: -Upper Receiver (good quality) -Lower Receiver (smoked polycarbonate) -Carry Handle (good quality) -Front Sight (good quality) -Outer Barrel (lower quality) -Flash Hider (lower quality) -Forward Assist (good quality)   Unfortunately it shares the same charging handle issue as the classic version. Again not a huge thing but a disappointment after their other lines. The barrel is threaded in std 14mm cc threads, but it is composite, not metal. Function Everything function wise has been the same as the classic version thus far. We have about 800 rds through this one though, and no issues or misfeeds to date. It has fed the same brands of mags as the classic version just fine. Battery installation is exactly the same.   The hop system, seems identical to the classic version. It has the 'sweet' spot. Performance Performance has been nearly identical to the classic version as well. The motor sounds a bit quieter than the classic version, but it may be the motor height. It also appears to shoot slower than the classic as well, but the chrono will confirm that. -Responsiveness The M4 Carbine REC has great trigger response. Just like the classic version; not quite as snappy as the MP5G5 we had reviewed, but better than the AK W/S, which was still above average. -Rate Of Fire Again, not quite as fast as the MP5G5, but faster than the AK W/S, which was again, above average to begin with. So very good ROF. -Accuracy Accuracy is excellent, tighter and more consistent than the MP5, not quite as good as the AK W/S. Certainly on par or better than most stock M4's from other brands. -Range Effective range with the hop set is about 75-100 ft depending on conditions, with .25's. We use .25 Bastards in all our testing. After 85ish feet, the bb's drop quite rapidly, but up until then, have a nice straight trajectory with little rise/fall in the path. Again not as good as the AK W/S, a bit better than the MP5G5. All in all, very skirmishable, and again, on par or better than most other stock M4's I have experienced. -Speed Didn't have the chrono at the field when we played today, but they are with Amos for internals review, so he will provide us with the speeds. I expect around 320-330 fps w/ .20's from what I saw. Reliability Well, 800rds through this one so far with no issues. Not a great test of reliability at this point, but I will update as time goes on. Internals See Amos's review below. Summary Well, per the internals review by Amos, the $40.00 or so difference between this and the classic/std version is definitely not worth the quality drop between the REC and classic version. The classic is the way to go.
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Last edited by WARFIGHTER; September 5th, 2009 at 20:06.. |
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August 24th, 2009, 13:47
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#3 |
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STANDARD VERSION
                 BEFORE PISTON HEAD OVERALL: 14/25 OR 56/100 UPDATE I just installed a modify polycarbonate piston head and the FPS on this thing jumped quite a bit. It's now firing 374 +/- 4 FPS.. It's VERY consistent and sounds VERY healthy. With this $15 part this gun now scores AFTER PISTON HEAD OVERALL: 19/25 OR 76/100 I would HIGHLY recommend this gun over any Cyma, JG, or any other clone within its price range.. or hell.. Even Tokyo Marui M4's {ONLY THEIR M4S IN THIS CASE, I AM NOT SAYING THAT G&G IS BETTER THAN TM}... (Tokyo Marui M4's are very out-dated with receiver tabs, multi piece barrel... G&G has improved on ALL of these things) Last edited by Amos; September 3rd, 2009 at 00:11.. |
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August 24th, 2009, 18:48
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#4 |
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REC VERSION
Ooookay! Just got finished with the REC carbine... Before you read on... I must say.. AVOID THE REC VERSION. It's MUCH lower quality than the normal M4 Carbine... the price difference of $48 is NOT WORTH buying the Rec version... Go for the standard or advanced all the way... Here's why:   Low quality plastic upper receiver... with a strange finish.. All the metal parts have a very ugly shiny black paint applied to them.  Motor.. It may look the same as the standard version.. but it has MUCH less torque (strength to spin the gears)  Plastic stock cap with a force threaded screw to hold it in   Standard hop-up unit.. but a horribly light and weak aluminum inner barrel   Demonstration of upper receiver flex... I don't know about you.. but I like my guns to feel solid.. not like a wet noodle.    Standard gearbox... it's all pretty standard.. only difference being brass bushings instead of 7mm bearings that the standard version has... oh yea.. the piston head STILL SUCKS.  Less than 500 rounds put through this.. and there's already trigger corrosion..  FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF PISTON HEAD!!  Very suitable replacement   Very low quality lower... a small fracture formed as I was re-building everything.. it didn't line up perfectly so I had to bend the body so the holes would line up.. THE NUMBERS!: Shimming: 4/5 Shimming was very good, it only needed 3X .1mm shims to make it perfect 3 Revolutions free-spin Compression: 0/5 Complete and utter failure... change the piston head ASAP. The stock piston head was LOOSE.. this would have caused a major gearbox failure in the this gun's future. Wiring 3/5 Wiring is lower quality than the normal version of this gun.. It was very stiff, very thin and got very hot within a short time of test-firing it. The motor has much less torque than the standard version Less than 500 shots and already trigger corrosion Finish: 2.5/5 All metal is just painted with a glossy black paint that chips very easily. Very cheap plastic lower, cracked during re-assembly Fitment: 2.5/5 Plastic stock cap was plastic with force-thread screw Very flimsy upper Body required tweaking to get all the holes to line up to put the pins in straight OVERALL 12/25 OR 48/100 Verdict: GET THE REGULAR VERSION. It's $48 more... and you don't have to deal with all the down-falls of the cheap version. There's no reason anyone shouldn't pony up the extra $48, even if they are going to be replacing a majority of the parts. THE REGULAR LINE IS MUCH, MUCH BETTER. Last edited by Amos; September 5th, 2009 at 17:59.. |
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August 24th, 2009, 22:57
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Do the GR 16 blowback have the same compression problem like the classic m4?
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August 24th, 2009, 23:15
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Awsome i've been waiting for a review on these. So Amos, with parts and labour how much would you ball park to make this a competitive fieldable AEG?
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 "Were not that good... Everybody else just sucks" Quote:
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August 24th, 2009, 23:29
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#7 |
 Ride Sleds!
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wow good thing im not getting that anymore im getting the G&G GR16 A2 (M16 A2) i hope thats better lol
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Retired. |
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August 24th, 2009, 23:32
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#8 | |
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formerly Knyte
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Quote:
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August 24th, 2009, 23:45
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August 24th, 2009, 23:52
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#10 | |
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If these guns were to fix the compression issue they would score ALOT better than they do already. The high grade gun would have been a 76/100 if G&G re-designed their stupid piston head. It all depends what you mean competitive fieldable AEG... These guns shoot BB's pretty well already... I've been killed by the G&G clear line before... To solve the piston issue you can go about two ways, Cheap: Replacing the Piston Head - $15 part $20 or so labor (May be more if the gun needs precision shimming, cleaning or re-wiring) Mid-grade: Replacing the Piston head - $15 Replacing the Cylinder Head - $25 Sorbo Pad - $15 $20 or so labor (May be more if the gun needs precision shimming, cleaning or re-wiring) Top-grade: Completely replacing all the compression parts, Piston, Piston head, Cylinder, Cylinder head, Nozzle - $75 Sorbo Pad - $15 $20 or so labor (May be more if the gun needs precision shimming, cleaning or re-wiring) Don't get my numbers confused... These are good guns, they just have a compression issue that needs to be fixed. |
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August 25th, 2009, 00:05
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#11 | ||
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Quote:
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"Were not that good... Everybody else just sucks" Quote:
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August 25th, 2009, 00:06
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#12 |
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Ride Sleds!
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the guy im getting from said hes had no problems with it at all. and he used it alot..
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Retired. |
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August 25th, 2009, 00:10
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whats the chrony on the advanced m4?
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---------------------- The beatings will continue until morale improves |
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August 25th, 2009, 00:16
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Ride Sleds!
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prob 320 to 360
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Retired. |
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August 25th, 2009, 00:18
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I have a g&g gr16m3. last chrono'ed at 350-360 fps.
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HellRanger 1969-2007 LRRP FOREVER  101e 506Pir Fox Company - SHTYK NOZH |
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