Airsoft Values - Observations from a Noob

[Old School Punk]

Hey Guys; Gordo here again. So I have been looking at the airsoft gun market here in Canada, and particularly the "used" side of it, and I have come up with a few observations that I would like to share with you all.

I come from a background of hobbies where the value of an item goes up based on how close to perfect or "mint" condition you can keep it it.

An item unused in its original box, is like money in the Bank, and is sure to someday increase in value.

Airsoft on the other hand is a totally different beast. These things are bought to be be used and enjoyed by the guys that buy them.

Coming from a different mind set, here are a few things that I have observed about the "used" market for airsoft guns here in Canada.

#1. They aren't easy or quick to sell!
I think that a good part of this is due to the fact that these things cost a lot of money in Canadian dollars. Along with the stupid US / Can money exchange, there is the "rarity" or "difficulty in getting in Canada" fee that makes these things very expensive to buy new here.

The fact they cost so much new means that the guys selling them want to get what they paid for them, back out of them when they try to sell them used.

The sad thing about this is that due to the rather fragile nature of these things, very few people want to buy a used gun, particularly if it has been "gamed" or "fielded".

The other thing that makes these things hard to sell is that the people buying them tend to be younger guys who simply can't afford a toy worth $400.00 to $800.00 dollars. Lots of these guys are got a million different places to spend their money, like food and cars and chicks and booze.

This leaves the old guys who got a bit of extra cash kicking around, and for the most part if they are going to spend that kind of money, they want a brand new gun.

#2. You never really get your money out of "upgrades". It's kind of like when you take your car to a dealership to trade it in and the salesman tells you that he will give you $15 bucks for your $2,000.00 dollar stereo system! It sucks, but it's kind of true.

When you read an ad that says that a gun has been upgraded with blah, blah, blah, you can't help but wonder how all the upgrades work together, or who did the upgrading and how good are they at it.

For me I also think that a gun that has been heavily upgraded has probably been used a lot!

So I don't know if there is any kind of a "collectible" side to this sport, or if it is still too new to have this sort thing, but it seems to me that these things are made to be used and enjoyed till they drop, and thats about it.

Sorry for being so long winded, I just had to relay a few things that I have noticed since I have gotten into airsoft.

Let me know what you think

Gordo

[Brian McIlmoyle]

There is plenty of trade in AS guns..

I know quite a number of guys who build guns and sell them. For them the fun is in the build.. and once its done.. they loose interest. These are typically like new guns with higher end internals and tend to sell at the mid to high price point.. not entry level stuff.

There is also a lot of nearly new guns purchased on impulse and then sold shortly after when the buyer figures out they 1. did not really need another gun. 2. would rather be able to eat this month. 3. the gun does not really suit their style of play.

Some people do sell off used up guns to unsuspecting noobs. which is unfortunate.. but completely avoidable if the buyer does some research and asks some questions. Buyer beware.

There are quite a few collectors who buy guns to fill out their collections.. but as in all collections.. there is a bit of churning of pieces as the collectors sell off less desired guns to afford new better guns.

[Crunchmeister]

Originally Posted by Old School Punk

#1. They aren't easy or quick to sell!
I think that a good part of this is due to the fact that these things cost a lot of money in Canadian dollars. Along with the stupid US / Can money exchange, there is the "rarity" or "difficulty in getting in Canada" fee that makes these things very expensive to buy new here.

That's totally dependent on the gun, really. If you're talking about a run of the mill low to midrange M4 or AK that's just like 209488 other guns out there, then no. Those guns are plentiful and relatively cheap on the used market, because everyone and their dog has one or more of them. Even the more expensive custom models of this type are slow to sell, again because everyone has one of these things.

And I agree you rarely get your money's worth in resale out of a gun. I've put about $1100 into building my custom C8 carbine, and I'd really be lucky to get $750 out of it on resale. That's just the way it is.

Now, if you have something that's rarer or in demand, then chances are your piece will sell quickly and fetch a decent price.

[Drake]

As someone who's been around airsoft for the past decade, let me offer a counter argument.

With regards to used guns, it depends whom is selling and whom is buying. Many of the really new people are wary of buying used because they don't know what to expect: there's a presumption in our society, regarding usual consumer goods, that buying something new will result in having something trouble free. Of course, as you pointed out, many people starting out don't have the money or aren't inclined to dumping a huge amount into the sport/hobby, so they try and find some of the cheapest options.

Unfortunately, in airsoft, those cheaper options usually mean lower quality and they'll end up being troublesome anyway. Quite a few "noobs" learned the lesson the hard way: buying a higher quality item used will usually give you better bang for your buck than getting brand new junk.

Experienced players, those who can tinker and fix guns themselves, usually have much less issue with buying used if they're getting a good deal. With experience, you learn which parts are important and which are easily replaced: for someone who doesn't know how to fix a gun, a non-working mechbox is a huge issue, but folks who know how to fix them know that asides from the gears and the shell itself, most parts in a mechbox are both cheap and easily obtained. I can scratch build a mechbox from parts with my eyes closed, so when buying used I'm far more concerned with things like the body (importing a replacement receiver being a major expense/hassle).

Similarly, with regards to upgrades, experience allows you to learn what parts do and which parts work best, etc. The upgrade job itself must also be done correctly or the new parts are worthless.

A good example is "bare basics" power upgrades, where people throw in a new spring and maybe metal bushings: the spring is what, $10-15, the bushings are another $5-10, plus shipping from Asia (maybe $10 from ehobby). How much more am I really expected to pay for this? Heck there's a lot of people out there, I'd pay MORE for the gun f they hadn't opened up the mechbox to put those parts in.

Knowing whom you're buying from, and knowing they maintained their gun properly, is also a factor. Just like the bit above about upgrades, some people build beasts and others build complete clusterfucks. I've had to fix other self-proclaimed gundocs' handywork more than once (shaking my head as did).

In terms of resale value its supply and demand for one, and the condition of the gun. Some items are rare or out of production, with very limited availability in Canada: you have to expect to pay more for those. As for regular guns, if properly maintained, I don't think they devalue that much: the biggest factor is used gun pricing I've observed over the years was the introduction of cheap Chinese guns on the market (clones of higher end/higher priced guns).

[kalnaren]

I agree with everything Drake and Crunch said. Take a look at the classifieds and see how long it takes for a full metal MP5 or a P90 RDS to sell.

I've sold several guns on the classifieds and didn't have an issue selling any of them. In most cases the most money I was out was what it cost me to ship them (so I lost $25-$50 on what I paid for them). Some of these guns I got BNIB, others were used.

It's all supply and demand really, and what you're looking for in a gun. I also baby my guns.

Also what Drake said about who's selling them makes a lot of difference. I recently completed a purchase where the item I recieved was in generally worse condition than the seller led me to believe. Hence I'm not likely to pay that seller's asking price again if they have something I want to buy. In contrast, someone I know who describes the gun exactly how it is I'll be far more likely to pay a higher price for since i know exactly what I'm getting. You shouldn't have to pay for honesty, but sometimes it's worth it.

[KND]

I join this sport for almost a year and I'm still noob to some part of the sport but I do more selling and buying more than a few people who join this sport since it has been start.

Here is a few example that I have experience about airsoft trade.

Noob : Most of them looking for good and decent gun. Good and Decent to them mean working mechbox, good quality external especially no paint at all also the price tag is more important to them as well. That's the market for noob who just join the sport. I usually hate to deal with them so much except a few who is between 30 years old or more. Those guy are mostly know what they are talking about and read more about the sport and do their own research before they commitment to do something relate to sport.

Chairsofter or Collector : Most of those guy are usually looking for only high end quality external gun because they are usually collect them and hang on the wall so internal is quite not important to them but if the internal is good then they would willing to pay more as well plus I like to deal with them so much because they know what they are asking and doing so they don't usually low ball you at all.

Gamer : Those guy are only looking for high end internal gun and excellent external as well since they need something that is durable and will last for long time so if you have what they want then it will sell like hot chick plus the paint is somehow not a matter important to them since they can repaint and do their own custom by them self as well. I kinda like to deal with them too since they usually offer much for what they really want.

Gun smith : Those guy are the last guy that I don't like to deal with since they never offer something more man those 3 guys that I mention above.
Most of them are experience in a lots of thing so they only looking for cheap gun and will custom to beast by them self so they always offer to me very cheap.


KND

[m102404]

Originally Posted by KND

I join this sport for almost a year and I'm still noob to some part of the sport but I do more selling and buying more than a few people who join this sport since it has been start.

Here is a few example that I have experience about airsoft trade.

Noob : Most of them looking for good and decent gun. Good and Decent to them mean working mechbox, good quality external especially no paint at all also the price tag is more important to them as well. That's the market for noob who just join the sport. I usually hate to deal with them so much except a few who is between 30 years old or more. Those guy are mostly know what they are talking about and read more about the sport and do their own research before they commitment to do something relate to sport.

Chairsofter or Collector : Most of those guy are usually looking for only high end quality external gun because they are usually collect them and hang on the wall so internal is quite not important to them but if the internal is good then they would willing to pay more as well plus I like to deal with them so much because they know what they are asking and doing so they don't usually low ball you at all.

Gamer : Those guy are only looking for high end internal gun and excellent external as well since they need something that is durable and will last for long time so if you have what they want then it will sell like hot chick plus the paint is somehow not a matter important to them since they can repaint and do their own custom by them self as well. I kinda like to deal with them too since they usually offer much for what they really want.

Gun smith : Those guy are the last guy that I don't like to deal with since they never offer something more man those 3 guys that I mention above.
Most of them are experience in a lots of thing so they only looking for cheap gun and will custom to beast by them self so they always offer to me very cheap.


KND

Well put!

Only points to add are from each of those types of persons point of view when it comes time to sell what they have.

"Noob" (don't like that term): No matter how badly used and abused their AEG is...they want to get the same price as what they paid for it. They should factor in that it's typically a "cheaper" AEG to begin with...upgrades are questionable (probably done on the cheap as well...but it's dependant on who did them)...and it's used. Factor in a 30% drop. Tough to buy from, tough to sell to...but they're usually good guys.

Chairsofter/Collector: Pristine stuff...quite often hard to find. They either want to get what they paid for it...or the going rate...or will mark it up to what they think it's worth. Not much point haggling dollars and cents...but if you pull out that special toy that you've been saving in the back of the closet....there's trades that can be made...

Gamer: Used and abused...stripped screws, cracked plastic, dirt/sand/paint/grime/swamp/etc.....Typically solid externals (painted and scratched )...internals are worn and well used (some call it "field tested"). Typically ask exactly the amount that they need to buy their next field gun...typically have a bunch of stuff to throw into the package to brighten up the deal. Pull out the tweaked/tuned 399.99fps 500yrd cqb sniper AEG...and offer up trades...other wise take 20% off of going rate then factor in whatever else is in the package. Great guys to buy from.

Gun Smith: By far the easiest to deal with...if they're good...but probably not the cheapest because they're factoring their time on everything. No haggling on price. They know what it's worth, how much time and exactly what parts have gone into it. They know how much time/effort/parts they're going to need to put into it to get it running well. You should be getting a fair honest deal from a gun smith...they've seen/had/traded/bought/sold so many AEGs that pretty much nothing fazes them. If they're honest and straight up kind of guys...they should be great to buy from...but you probably won't find the best bottom dollar price with a gun doc. But...a good gun doc will talk about guns, gears, troubleshooting and stuff in general until you're bored silly...they'll even offer you coffee, show off what they're working on and try to talk more with you...just because they're so freaking glad not to be hunched over a workbench fiddling endlessly with screws, grease and parts that don't seem to work right for no good reason.... They'd rather do anything but look at the pile of rifles waiting for their turn on the workbench.

Note: Personal note on buying/selling (or at least from my perspective)...I personally think that whatever price someone is asking for an item, that's what they think it's worth to them and I have to respect that. I think that I tend to say to people..."It's your {item}, name your price...if it works for me, I'll buy it". In turn, same principle holds when selling...if my sell price works for you...great. If not, we'd better work on a better deal!

Tys

[Amos]

High end stuff retains its value very well... whereas low grade stuff doesn't.

[Danke]

Here's what you do;

First of all have cash in hand. No point in asking the guy if he can wait 3 months.

Second, know what you want and pay attention. Be aware of how rare some things are, and be ready to jump on them if they turn up. Search through the completed sales and see if M4s are selling within 20 minutes of the post going up or after 10 bumps and multiple price reductions.

Third, pay attention to the seller. Read his past posts, and not just his by sell feedback.

Fourth, look at the item itself. Can you get parts, mags, holsters etc. or is it a white elephant? For something like a classic that's going to be a wall hanger then maybe that won't matter. If you need a reliable primary or secondary then steer clear of uncommon.

Last is location, shipping a M249 from PEI to Calgary will burn you on freight. Figure that cost into the sellers price vs. what you'll pay and see if it's still affordable.

[chester]

Originally Posted by m102404

...they'll even offer you coffee

I never got offered a coffee!!

I don't know about selling to a guntech, but I highly recommend buying from one. Pretty particular about making sure the gun is sound, and would probably be embarrassed if they sold someone a clunker. And as mentioned, especially with guntechs prices are just where they should be.

[m102404]

Originally Posted by chester

I never got offered a coffee!!

I was sick with the that horrible flu and still had you over...spent as long as you needed...let you handle a bunch of different models......I should have coughed on you....

...see the last sentence of my comments about "noobs"....

Just kidding....

[chester]

Originally Posted by m102404

...let you handle a bunch of different models...

Yes that blonde was particularly nice.

Sorry, off topic...

[kalnaren]

Originally Posted by Amos

High end stuff retains its value very well... whereas low grade stuff doesn't.

Yea, so true. I've had no issue getting pretty much what I paid for it for the Tokyo Marui stuff I sold. The WELL stuff...not so much.

[chester]

Just like brands in other sectors. Mercedes holds value better than Kia.

[pusangani]

KND and Tyson hit the nail right on the head, especially that part about the gamers asking for the price of their next gun, seen that happen alot! but when the gun they've been eyeing gets sold, their price usually goes down a bit hehe

As far as TM sales tho, I see people selling TM AK's with little element metal bodies and woodkits, and expecting to get $650-700 for them, I always laugh when I see this, you see them, the ones with 2 pages of bumps and price drops, it's because these guys bought their TM AK's back before Cyma, Jing Gong, Dboys and Aftermath, they paid like 450-500 for them and are only trying to get back what they put into the gun ($100 for metal body $75-150 for woodkit, but they never will.

Then there are guys who got ripped off in the first place, and still have no clue so they try to sell their gun for a ridiculous amount, e.g. WE gbb pistol for $700-800