Double Sector

[vic_man4]

As the title says, yes, a double sector. Instantanous trigger response (cut-off lever works with this gear so you still only get one shot on semi), double the ROF with low-speed, high-torque setups.

Heres a pic of the beast;


Some issues I see is with HIGH ROF setups the gun will short stroke because the sector will engage with the pistons rack before the piston/spring reaches total decompression, sounds bad. I think it would work best with high FPS setups with people who want trigger response, low rof setups with low voltage batteries who want double the ROF off one cycle and those who want to experment and ruin pistons with high ROF setups.

Sounds liek fun, what do you think?

[The Saint]

It might work with a Trigger Master unit.

Having an avatar meant to spit in the face of ASC's verification system is an open invitation for a short stay here.

[vic_man4]

Originally Posted by The Saint

It might work with a Trigger Master unit.

Having an avatar meant to spit in the face of ASC's verification system is an open invitation for a short stay here.

Took your advice and ran.
Read up on my KWA KM4A1 review, might make you think twice about KWA, after reading that youll know that it is the best gun in the world, no joke.
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=71352

[The Saint]

"Best gun in the world" is rather subjective. Different people prioritize certain features over others.

For example, I prefer Star's quick spring change and microswitch trigger mech over high performance internals. I could always upgrade a Star with better internals, I can't really upgrade other mechboxes with quick spring change and microswitch.

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by vic_man4

Took your advice and ran.
Read up on my KWA KM4A1 review, might make you think twice about KWA, after reading that youll know that it is the best gun in the world, no joke.
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=71352

I don't mean to come across as a douche. But why are you hyping the shit out of the KWA Armalite series? Yes, that series is good, but not without flaws (like most airsoft guns). But you're just sounding like a fan boy with 2 threads in 20 minutes regurgitating information from kwausa.com forums.

[The Saint]

Well, technically his second thread was about a crazy sector design, and it only mentions the KWA on the side.

I wonder if such a sector can trip the cut-off lever correctly.

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by The Saint

Well, technically his second thread was about a crazy sector design, and it only mentions the KWA on the side.

I wonder if such a sector can trip the cut-off lever correctly.

Which, I read first after browsing his link to kwausa.com forums to a high fps/high rof gun a guy is building there.

http://www.kwausa.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=437

EDIT: I too wonder... Might you need to strengthen the spring which connects the tappet plate and nozzle to ensure the tappet gets to battery fast enough?

[DustMagnet]

The source and a technical discussion: http://forums.airsoftmechanics.com/i...p?topic=1299.0

[vic_man4]

Originally Posted by ShelledPants

Which, I read first after browsing his link to kwausa.com forums to a high fps/high rof gun a guy is building there.

http://www.kwausa.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=437

EDIT: I too wonder... Might you need to strengthen the spring which connects the tappet plate and nozzle to ensure the tappet gets to battery fast enough?

Originally Posted by ShelledPants

I don't mean to come across as a douche. But why are you hyping the shit out of the KWA Armalite series? Yes, that series is good, but not without flaws (like most airsoft guns). But you're just sounding like a fan boy with 2 threads in 20 minutes regurgitating information from kwausa.com forums.

LOL, Yes I just regurgitate my information and thus do not have a brain of my own, if you read the entire thing youll see that the "regurgitated" information was mostly my opinion, other information was from others that I gathered to support my opinion. Further more, the information gathered from your link was taken with permission. Regurgitating information is what uneducated people like you would suggest, gather is what i did with my own opinion and rock solid facts. Its called facts supporting your thesis, dont quit your day job buddy.
And its not just their M4's that are great, a little known fact is that their G36c uses the exact same gearset and a V3 reinforced gearbox, thus just as capible as their M4s.

Originally Posted by TheSaint

"Best gun in the world" is rather subjective. Different people prioritize certain features over others.

For example, I prefer Star's quick spring change and microswitch trigger mech over high performance internals. I could always upgrade a Star with better internals, I can't really upgrade other mechboxes with quick spring change and microswitch.

For a price that I got it at, $400, a KWA at that Canadian retail is a steel. So what a with a star you can change your spring, once I get a set FPS, Im sticking to it, quick change spring via spring guide, meh. I guess your right, but to upgrade your gun, itll cost the price of my gun and then a couple headaches to get it to endure like their M4's.

Originally Posted by TheSaint

Well, technically his second thread was about a crazy sector design, and it only mentions the KWA on the side.

Thanks for supporting me if that was ment to be taken positively.

Originally Posted by MillerBRo

So dont let the elitist gun snobs who only clicked on your post to thread shit tell you other wise (they are OHHHH so helpful here- they wont offer you any help but will be self rightous pricks cause they are CLEARLY 'pros' who overpaid for their guns roflmao)

[Kos-Mos]

What ever you do, it will STILL short stroke the pistion.

Count the number of teeth on a piston. Unless you can fit the same distance on an twice shorter arc of circle, you will get short stroke.

Ans since it is the last 20% of the travel that does most of the job, using that kind of sector gear would require an extremely stronger spring. (Something along M150 just to hit 400 fps mark) That would result in an increaded load on the motor, battery and the other [arts of the mechbox, resulting a very premature failure of the components.

You would then need to use a larger battery with a stronger motor to keep the same acceleration and ROF, even if a cycle does shoot twice.

It would also prevent you from using any innerbarrel longer than a G36/M4 lenght, because the piston can't travel as far and about half the cylinder will be redered useless.

Since most high powered rifles are aimed at markmen/long range shooting in semi, it defeats the purpose since accuracy will be dropped a lot by using a very short barrel.

The only possible usage of that kind of gear would be in a sub 350 fps setup, using a stronger spring (such as a M120), a short barrel and a larger battery.
It would be only usefull in CQB environements, where engagement distances are quite short.

Then again, bursting 30 bbs under a second to your buddy will eventually make them angry, and probably limit your possible game attendance.

At that point, one would be a lot more encline to use an AEP type weapon, such as an MP7 or Mach-10. Using a 7.4 lipo instead of the stock 7.2v pack and by doing minimal upgrade to the components, one would achieve a very high ROF, while keeping wear down and about the same accuracy as the double sector gear equiped rifle.

[Skruface]

Not to mention that with a double-sector gear and the short-stroking of the piston, you need to use a crazy spring to get even modest FPS.....an M160 spring just to hit 300 fps....that's gonna kill most mechboxes, esp. V2, in no time.

[Midgetkid]

The reason he is hyping up KWA's is cause they are easily one of the top AEG's made

But lets not get off topic, this post is about the double sector gear :P

[ILLusion]

These are called "Butterfly Gears" and not a new topic, although they're just starting to reach mass production now. Some notes regarding the OPs comments:

Originally Posted by vic_man4

Some issues I see is with HIGH ROF setups the gun will short stroke because the sector will engage with the pistons rack before the piston/spring reaches total decompression, sounds bad.

The purpose of this gear IS to make a high ROF setup. These gears also require short-stroked pistons (8 tooth rack), so if you're concerned about the sector gear smacking against your piston tooth rack, it's a minimal worry. You don't necessarily need high FPS to get it to work right, but a very very weak spring could cause problems.

This type of gear set can only be used in short barreled weapons due to the short stroke of the piston. It can't compress enough air volume to push a BB through a long barrel.

In general, the battery used versus the motor versus the torque level of the gears versus the spring all have to be balanced out to get a setup like this to work properly. One can't expect to just throw parts in to work.

Originally Posted by The Saint

Well, technically his second thread was about a crazy sector design, and it only mentions the KWA on the side.

I wonder if such a sector can trip the cut-off lever correctly.

It can. These have been done.

[TriChrome]

I have this gear and did a review of it for my local forum. Using a PDI 190% spring (usually gives me 450 FPS with .2's), 10.8v 4200mah battery, standard ratio other gears, and a TM EG1000 motor I was getting 305 FPS with .2's at 41 RPS.

When I dropped in a Guarder SP170 spring (well over 600 FPS), I was getting around 400 FPS at 34 RPS with a G&P M160 motor. Blew out the 7mm bearings twice and am replacing with 7mm bushings and installing a Systema Magnum motor when they arrive. Should get maybe 37 RPS that way.

I was also sent the new spacer that RiotSC (the manufacturer of this gear) made that makes you get about 70% efficiency out of this setup instead of the 34% that you'll get without a spacer. I'll try that when those other parts arrive.