A suggestion: Retailer links

[Affliction]

Move the retailer links to the age verified (18+) section.

Discuss.

[SINN]

Why? Retailers sell items that are not just for +18. It is up to the stores to enforce the bylaws etc.

[GraveTech]

No, because there are many on here who are not verified but are over 18. It is also not out responsibility to age verify for retailers.

[Affliction]

Originally Posted by GraveTech

No, because there are many on here who are not verified but are over 18. It is also not out responsibility to age verify for retailers.

I challenge you:

Is it too much trouble for a person to take some time out of their day to get age verified? Airsoft one of the less 'soccermom-approved' sports. A person that spends the time to get age verified is more likely to have read (and will ahere to) the rules and associated laws than a person who is too lazy to do so.

Age verification ENSURES that the person(s) are at least of 18 years of age (unless there are corrupt verifiers). Identification over the internet is subject to fraud (ie. One could easily photoshop a fake ID if need be).

The only problem I could see is if a person lived in some remote location to the north (Say, Nunavut?) Then an exception for identification could be made (Fax, Scanned image, or even web camera would do).

Originally Posted by SINN

Why? Retailers sell items that are not just for +18. It is up to the stores to enforce the bylaws etc.

Thats as good as saying we should leave the AEG buy/sell forums open to all.
It's up to the seller to enforce the bylaw.

-VM

[Black_Orchid]

Originally Posted by VipaMave

Is it too much trouble for a person to take some time out of their day to get age verified?

Originally Posted by VipaMave

The only problem I could see is if a person lived in some remote location to the north (Say, Nunavut?)

You just answered your own question. Not everyone lives near someone who can verify them. That means either waiting for one to come to them or making a loooong trip out to meet someone...which doesn't always happen right away.

Originally Posted by VipaMave

Then an exception for identification could be made (Fax, Scanned image, or even web camera would do).

Just curious how exactly you'd make sure that the person on the scanned image or webcam is over 18?

Originally Posted by VipaMave

Thats as good as saying we should leave the AEG buy/sell forums open to all.
It's up to the seller to enforce the bylaw.

I think you're missing what SINN is saying...many retailers sell more than just AEG's. What if someone just wants to buy a holster or a boonie? Not only would you be preventing that person from searching for what they need or want to buy, but you'd be taking away potential business from the retailer. If I were a retailer, that wouldn't exactly make me happy. You'd need permission from all the retailers before doing any of this.

[Affliction]

Originally Posted by VipaMave

Then an exception for identification could be made (Fax, Scanned image, or even web camera would do).

Just curious how exactly you'd make sure that the person on the scanned image or webcam is over 18?

You can't be sure. You can however request that they show legal documentation with your date of birth however (Many have holographic strips and other security measures... which can be seen on WCam).

Originally Posted by VipaMave

Thats as good as saying we should leave the AEG buy/sell forums open to all.
It's up to the seller to enforce the bylaw.

I think you're missing what SINN is saying...many retailers sell more than just AEG's. What if someone just wants to buy a holster or a boonie? Not only would you be preventing that person from searching for what they need or want to buy, but you'd be taking away potential business from the retailer. If I were a retailer, that wouldn't exactly make me happy. You'd need permission from all the retailers before doing any of this.[/QUOTE]

By removing retailers that (have) sold to minors, you are taking away potential business from them. Why would you need a holster or a boonie if you don't have an airsoft gun? If you really need one, stop by your local army surplus store. You don't need ANY permission from ANY retailers to remove them from the list. It's not like they sponsor this site.

-VM

[Black_Orchid]

Originally Posted by VipaMave

Why would you need a holster or a boonie if you don't have an airsoft gun? If you really need one, stop by your local army surplus store.

Why are you assuming that someone who wants to buy a holster or boonie doesn't already have a gun? Also, not everyone lives near a surplus store.

Originally Posted by VipaMave

You don't need ANY permission from ANY retailers to remove them from the list. It's not like they sponsor this site.

Some of the retailers that are on this list are members on ASC. It is THEIR business therefore they should have a say as to what is done with their links.

[SINN]

the ASC classified section is for personal sales only. We can do our part by restricting it to 18+. I have seen holsters in surplus shops that do not "sell just pants" (joke intended) but that doesn't mean he has to sell AEG's.

I understand your point being that some shops sell to underage customers. If you dig deep enough, you might even find out that some of these stores have accepted stolen credit card information without realizing it. I guess we should somehow link ASC with Canada's major banks to make sure credit card information is correct and verified too.

we cant force our rules on retailers.
BUT
If they sell to minors, they risk backlash from the community here. I know that I don't want to buy from a retailer who sells to minors. It happens, but there isnt much we can do about it.

[Man Solo]

I think removing the retaliers for non age verified members is a good idea. Kids can still buy anything they need in the accessories forum. All that it does is make it a little bit harder for them to get. No one is saying that every retailer in canada has to sell to 18+ only. It is just restriciting the access that they have from this particular site. For example if someone wanted to buy a laser sight or rds from SD unit for example. They would have to to a bit of sniffing to find out that will/gump and on these forums, then pm them. If they are determined and look a bit they can still buy everything they want
and those that may have nefarious plans for said laser or RDS would be discouraged buy the initial hassle.

Good idea IMO

[GraveTech]

You run a restaurant business that caters peanut laden goodies. Lets say 5% of your customers don't know they are allergic to peanuts and have alergic reactions in your restaurant. Now you have posted signs everywhere that there is peanut and realted stuff in your goodies (heck, maybe the place is named Peanut heaven!) Ok now I see that some people are getting reactions from your food so I decide to stop everyone going to the store unless they first get a blood test done by my lab. How would you feel?

[Affliction]

Originally Posted by GraveTech

You run a restaurant business that caters peanut laden goodies. Lets say 5% of your customers don't know they are allergic to peanuts and have alergic reactions in your restaurant. Now you have posted signs everywhere that there is peanut and realted stuff in your goodies (heck, maybe the place is named Peanut heaven!) Ok now I see that some people are getting reactions from your food so I decide to stop everyone going to the store unless they first get a blood test done by my lab. How would you feel?

I'd leave the store open. It's their own fault if they decide to eat something they're allergic to. Their stupidity does not adversely affect you or any other person (Except themselves...) for that matter.

Now if you give a kid an Airsoft pistol and he holds up a 7-11 with it, it's going to be all over the news... and yet another bad rap for Airsoft.

Your example is irrelevant and sucks.
-VM

[SINN]

I get it now...kids that would rob a 7-11 wouln't use google or the Search option to find info if there wasn't the link..got it haha

[Affliction]

Originally Posted by SINN

I get it now...kids that would rob a 7-11 wouln't use google or the Search option to find info if there wasn't the link..got it haha

They probably wouldn't.

Even if they did, restricting the unverified users makes it alot more difficult for them to find a Canadian retailer (As all reputable retailers are conveniently listed at the top of the page).

[Rob]

would this not create more unneccesary questions such as "where do i buy guns?" or "which retailer is the best?/ is this a good place to buy?" I see the retailers link as a certification or asc approved places to buy from. furthermore, this method does not bar minors from buying guns, it bars those who have not been 18+ verified. it is sort of unfair to exclude those unable to be verified for geographical or time constraint reasons.