CELCIUS CTW stepping ahead in the TW market?

[FULLMETAL]

Hi guys, have you noticed that lately CELCIUS products for the CTW market?

Their CNC gearbox is even better than FCC, their last motor is incredible, and now they come out with this the iECU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSvLFLC-1VM

Finally a ECU developed to make your gun smart, with diagnostics, and possibilities like getting your statics from the gun, how much used it is, if it needs service because of the usage the possibilities are way better now.
I mean this ecu is awesome, imagine if they develop applications for smartphones you can be able to control the gun remotely, to check the status of the gun live one a game, etc, etc, etc...


I am a CTW user since their beginning and I had a love and hate story with them,(I have a MX2 the known one for fails) but is a 90% love so I really like them.

So what you think guys, will CELCIUS be the main TW soon?

[Ricochet]

lol Nope. Celcius has been cheap crap and remained cheap crap throughout their entire history. Their motors are not good, and neither is anything else for that matter. They are a cheap clone company. FCC didn't do a lot of things right, but your talking about two completely different leagues of guns. Systema/FCC is top of the line airsoft and Celcius is one of those plastic things that launches rubber bands you used to get out of a crackerjack box. Main TW....*giggle*! Celcius is a long forgotten bad memory and stands no chance. Get yourselves a reliable AEG, you'll be better off.

[Katlyn Cage]

I own an a&k ptw, two actually and am intrigued by the chance if getting cheaper parts.
My ptw with stock internals is actually more reliable than my one with FCC parts so I can't really judge on which "brand" is crap and which isn't.
I also see that it is not uncommon for crap brands to up their game and start building quality parts for a lower price.

[DipTwit]

It seems like it depends on who you talk to - anyone who had a bad experience with a brand will probably avoid it. And, for that matter, insist for ever afterward that they couldn't possibly be good.

I wish Celcius the best, but haven't spoken to a single happy owner of one (cuz I haven't met enough airsofters maybe lol) and so I took the plunge with A&K as well.

Aside from a couple of parts that were noticeably lower quality, and have been replaced, my pair of A&K clones have run like tanks; no failures of motors, electronics, etc. I think they've done a good job.

I suppose it benefits us all to have competition, and I agree it's nice to see more than one brand try to "up its game" as you say... gives us options.

[FULLMETAL]

Originally Posted by Ricochet

lol Nope. Celcius has been cheap crap and remained cheap crap throughout their entire history. Their motors are not good, and neither is anything else for that matter. They are a cheap clone company. FCC didn't do a lot of things right, but your talking about two completely different leagues of guns. Systema/FCC is top of the line airsoft and Celcius is one of those plastic things that launches rubber bands you used to get out of a crackerjack box. Main TW....*giggle*! Celcius is a long forgotten bad memory and stands no chance. Get yourselves a reliable AEG, you'll be better off.

Im not agree with this, their last products have a way higher quality than before... You should have a look on their last products. Even the materials are different, better metal quality, all CNC, etc, and this new ECU, pff, way ahead in comparative with the others.

I can tell their old products were a really bad thing... you could be a lucky one or get a crappy one. I got both the first one I loved it, the second one was a mess. And now I am on a custom build, I have parts from Systema, FCC, and Celcius.

[Ricochet]

I know a few happy owners of Celcius who've had good luck with one aspect or another with them. It seems that they have had their guns in getting warrenty work as much as they've been on the field. Their last Gen gun was their worst one since their first Gen gun. The point of FCC was to attempt to improve upon what Systema had done and focus on custom parts. At least that was before they tried to make entire, overpriced guns that didn't deliver. It all comes down to overall performance, quality, and reliability. Systema has one draw back, and that's the armature inside of their motor being wound too tight from factory, but we have a fix for this; we just rewind it. After that, it's a bulletproof work horse. Other than that Systema's overall build is why it kicks ass. How they make it, what they make it out of, and how it's all put together is why the Systems has been successful. Small areas of improvement could be made, like a CNC receiver, but that would push up the already high price, and good ones are already available aftermarket. The other is the hop-up. Systema has a damn good hop-up system, and the mod pushes it even further, and the newer hop-up styles are great out of the box. The electronics have always been good and can take a beating, their gear box and overall tolerance is second to none, and I won't even get into range and accuracy versus ALL other gun types out there. The overall package coupled with performance is what you're after. So barring an eventual motor rewind, you need to improve on the whole thing, not cheapen it.

I really hope Celcius comes out with something worth while, because they have yet to do that. I'm not saying they haven't made anything that works, but nothing that matches or improves on what already exists. So far it's clone after clone after clone after letdown. It was designed to be a cheap Systema, but what purpose does that serve? We already have high performing AEGs and GBBRs, why make or but a crappier version of something? You know what I see out there? People but the clones, and then end up upgrading them with Systema parts to keep them running, and yet still don't get the same performance out of them. So no, Celcius has an impossible way to go before it could lead the way in the training weapon design. Until then, wait for their next product to come out, wait for it to explode in people's faces, and then do a review on it. I recommend to everyone not to jump on a hype wagon from a company with a consistant record of mediocrity, at their best. If you are dead set on the TW internal design, grab an A&K and slowly upgrade it, or save for a Systema, it's worth it.

When Celsius guns do run, they shoot straight. That I will say. If it was a choice between that and a run of the mill AEG however, I'd take the AEG. Just my opinion. I would love for a company to step up and improve on the TW design without making it cost $4,000. I'll give everyone a hint though, it won't come in a cheap knockoff, and it won't have a gas line.

[ThunderCactus]

Getting better, yes.

I've always tried to stay objective when it comes to new stuff and brand improvement. Of course there are die hard systema fans that'll just shit on anything that isn't a systema.
FCC was proven time and time again to be an inferior product.
CTW has traditionally been crap, but let's all wait to see reviews of their new generation before deciding it's crap too. After all, G&G started off being as bad as chinasoft and clearsoft.

Let's not judge the new gun based on the company's history, but on the gun itself.

Although I sort of agree with Ricochet, there IS a place for ptw clones on the market.
Basically you get inferior internals, maybe the cylinders blow apart, maybe you need a new hop adjuster right off the bat, maybe the electronics don't last very long.
BUT, if all those things are systema interchangeable, then you have a half measure to having a really great gun at lower cost. It could be a good way to introduce people into ptws.
The major drawback of the AEG is the flimsy barrel group which is where you lose all your performance potential compared to a ptw. So if you can use a systema barrel group and have an fps variation of 2fps or less, well then it should shoot pretty darn close to the same.

[DipTwit]

In truth, I bought clone PTWs because I was sick & tired of opening up AEG gearboxes...

If my clone shot about the same as my $500 AEG (it shoots even better, thankfully) and cost under $500 (it did) and is as easy to maintain as a PTW, then I should be happy to never turn back, right!?

If I use what I learned to buy & maintain a real Systema down the road, all the better, but I can appreciate the improved design in a clone too.

[Ricochet]

Originally Posted by DipTwit

In truth, I bought clone PTWs because I was sick & tired of opening up AEG gearboxes...

If my clone shot about the same as my $500 AEG (it shoots even better, thankfully) and cost under $500 (it did) and is as easy to maintain as a PTW, then I should be happy to never turn back, right!?

If I use what I learned to buy & maintain a real Systema down the road, all the better, but I can appreciate the improved design in a clone too.

I could appreciate that sentiment. The issue with buying a clone, and then upgrading later is that Systema parts are much more expensive purchased seperately from the gun. But if you can get it running reliably and shooting straight, then I suppose that's a victory in itself. I don't like cheap clones strictly on their concept. Very rarely does it work out, and CTW, at least for the most part, is no exception. I disagree with Thunder that a companies history shouldn't be held against them. I would definately give them another shot, but wait until the results are out, and never believe the hype until it can be backed up.

Personally I'm waiting for a company to release parts, or even a gun, that is all around as good or better than a Systema. Real competition would do wonders for the price war.

[ThunderCactus]

That was the most obvious point that I failed to communicate I guess LOL

At least the clones are based on a very well engineered design that worked excellent 10 years ago, as opposed to an aging 15 year old design that's always under improvement.

[Turd]

Speaking strictly about the new ECU they're releasing here, it seems awesome if it works truly as intended. No more will you have a problem and think "gee I wonder what it is" or "it's either this, or this, or this...or...this...maybe". Point is, it will take a lot of the guess work in diagnosing the weapon out and simplify determining what needs replacing.

I won't dive into the CTW quality debate really. Though I will say I'm a happy owner of an MX2 and save for their sub-par cylinders (using PTW cylinders and an MDD hopup) I really don't have much to complain about. I would side with Thundercactus in saying that they're a platform for turning into something that has the best of both PTW and CTW without PTW cost and problems. I will say though at least with CTW if a part goes down it is much cheaper to replace (*ahem* motors *ahem*).

[SuperHog]

CTW is kinda doing what Ares is doing by using fancy electronics to create hype and ignore the poor gun workmanship.

[Ricochet]

I guess in a way I'm glad companies are getting away from the standard Tokyo Marui design. I think we've come about as far as that thing'll carry us, and trying to fit new technology into old doesn't necessarily make sense. PolsrStars for instance, may have been better off designed around a whole new system, or at least a better one.

[ThunderCactus]

It's a fantastic marketing gimmick, and upgrade.
Pretty much eliminates the sources of failure on the mechbox side, but unfortunately still uses the crap AEG barrel group. The improved performance only comes from being able to fine tune air volumes without having to buy 3 different types of cylinders.
There are upgrades to the barrel group, but you ultimately end up having to do tweaks, like having a barrel shim, shimming hop arms, Rhop, etc.

[gao8a]

Are those tx/rx sensors essentially like 'eyes' on paintball guns?