Full-Auto Glock 26?

[hattrick]

Tokyo Marui Glock 26



Understanding the Hammer Assembly &
A Theoretical Conversion to Full Automatic

August 29, 2005

Please do not copy/redistribute without author's permission.
Thank you.

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I'll start by saying, I have read articles about people modifying their KWC Desert Eagle and TM Glock 19 so they fired full-auto. This inspired me to strip down my TM Glock 26 and really understand exactly how everything works.

I strongly believe that all of this information is correct. Please let me know if you notice any errors. I have yet to do this conversion, at the risk that I'm incorrect about something. Hence, me posting it here.

On a final note, I used the word, "we" a lot... I hope nobody minds being included. :P

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In this picture, the hammer is not cocked and the trigger is at rest.



A - What I call the Semi-auto enforcer
B - Hammer catch
C - Hammer
D - Rod connecting the trigger to hammer assembly

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Understanding how this whole setup works:

Using our imaginations, we cock the hammer (C) back/down. During the process, the hammer catch (B) is slowly pushed backwards by the hammer, until the hammer is fully down, at which poing the hammer catch (B) clicks back into it's original position and holds the hammer down.

When the trigger is pulled slowly and softly, both the rod connecting the trigger to hammer assembly (D) and the Semi-Auto Enforcer (A) move backwards. When the trigger is pulled half way, your trigger finger can feel the tension on the hammer catch (B). When you pull the trigger the rest of the way, the hammer catch (B) moves backwards, and allows the hammer (C) to quickly spring forward/up. When the trigger is finally released, all the parts return back to their original position (pictured).

The purpose of part (A) is to enforce the semi-automatic function. It does this in conjunction with the internals of the gun's slide. When the slide is on, the Semi-Auto Enforcer (A) sits in a small metal track on the slide's internals. During the process of the slide moving back (either by hand or by shot), the height of its track decreases, which presses the Semi-Auto Enforcer (A) down (not back), and as well, cocks the hammer (C). When the slide returns to it's forward position, the Semi-Auto Enforcer (A) pops back up to it's original position (pictured), the hammer would remain cocked, and a BB would be loaded from the mag into the chamber.

In reality, we would be ready to fire away. But this is all imaginary, so remain clam, and stay with me...

When we pull the trigger all the way, (D) and (A) move back together, until (B) releases the hammer (C), which causes the hammer to press the button on the magazine that releases the gas. (Keep in mind, we are still holding the trigger all the way back.) When the gas is released, a BB is fired, and the slide blows back, which cocks the hammer, and presses (A) down.

Side note: When the trigger is pressed (when (A) is all the way back), if (A) is pressed down (which is what the slide does when it blows back), (A) will click into place (stay down), and release the tension on (B), preparing it to catch and hold the hammer the next time it's cocked.

On its way back to its forward/closed position, the slide loads another BB and gives (A) the room in needs to spring back up. But (A) isn't going anywhere. It's going to sit tight until we release the trigger. When we do finally release the trigger, (A) and (D) move back to their original position, leaving us again, with a cocked gun that's ready to be fired.

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Now that we understand how the whole setup works, here's our theory:

Imagine we cut off the top of (A) with this handy dremel tool we have here. Now imagine the slide is on, the gun is cocked, and we are about to shoot.

When we press and hold the trigger and the slide blows back, it would no longer press (A) down.

Meaning (B) would stay in its back position until the trigger is released.

Meaning the hammer (C) would not be held in it's cocked position.

Meaning the only thing holding the hammer back & down is the hammer's metal track on the internal piece of the slide.

Meaning: as soon as the slide returns to it's forward position, the hammer will swing forward and strike the button on the mag. This will release a burst of gas, which will shoot the BB and blow the slide back (cocking the hammer). The slide will then return to it's forward position.

This process will continue until the last BB in the mag is shot, at which point the slide will blow back and stay back (the empty mag will press the slide catch up), anxiously awaiting another mag full of BBs to blow away on it's newly aquired setting: Fully Automatic.

[LizzJ]

Is there any way to do this so that it's reversable?

The addition of a piece that holds (A) up, perhaps?
Hrmm... though if it is held up by a piece, the slide won't be able to cycle properly, as (A) will be in the way when the track's height lowers...

D'oh! :smack:

[Ace12GA]

If you want it done for you already, get a KSC Glock 26C, which is a select fire glock. This mod, which is almost exactly how you would mod a KSC Glock 17/19/34, is not reversable. The select fire models, 18C, 26C, etc.. have the same lower frame as their non select fire counter parts, its the slide that carries the select fire unit, which is no more than a cylinder that changes how the slide interacts with the frame internals; essentially it toggles engaging the trigger disconnect bar or not.

This mod alters the frame, which basically means, once its done, its done.

[aftica]

i think if you try this mod, you may find that the hammer simply ''follows'' the slide into battery, and may not hit the mag valve hard enough to cycle properly. the hammer has to be released by an ''auto sear'' when the slide is further ( or all the way ) forward into battery.

[hattrick]

If I remove the hammer assembly from the frame, what are the chances of me getting it all back into place?

Is it hopeless?

Those springs frighten me.

I remember I had one hell of a hard time trying to put the piston back together... spring, plastic pieces and a -tiiiiiiny- screw.

Ugh. ::shudders::

[Ace12GA]

Originally Posted by aftica

i think if you try this mod, you may find that the hammer simply ''follows'' the slide into battery, and may not hit the mag valve hard enough to cycle properly. the hammer has to be released by an ''auto sear'' when the slide is further ( or all the way ) forward into battery.

I've actually seen this mod done to a KSC Glock 17, and it works perfect; you get a full auto only Glock, that empties the mag in about 2 seconds, and wastes gas like mad. Its been a while since I have had a Glock 18C in my hands, but if memory serves, the 17 and 18C have a common lower frame, and the barrel/slides are totally interchangeable from frame to frame. Same goes for the 23F and 19. Someone correct me if I am wrong about this, but I am almost 100% sure about this. Sadly I haven't had a Glock 18C in about 4 years.

[aftica]

the frames are the same. the hammer assembly is a little different though. the g23f has a extra part or two. sorry i don't know the numbers offhand, but when in full auto the hammer on the g23f is released only when the slide has returned to battery. this allows the hammer to ''snap'' forward, providing a good strike.
but, hey, if the mod works... what the hell.

[hattrick]

wastes gas like mad

With a fully gassed mag, I usually get about 40 shots.

Are you saying I'll be able to fire less BBs with one fill if the glock is auto?

Why would it be using more gas than before?

The hammer would strike for the same amount of time, wouldn't it?

:-?

[Kid]

Originally Posted by neir

With a fully gassed mag, I usually get about 40 shots.

Are you saying I'll be able to fire less BBs with one fill if the glock is auto?

Why would it be using more gas than before?

The hammer would strike for the same amount of time, wouldn't it?

:-?

it's just the same reason as if you shot your glock repeatibly, the gas cools, so you get less pressure

[ILL9MIL]

Originally Posted by Ace12GA

I've actually seen this mod done to a KSC Glock 17, and it works perfect; you get a full auto only Glock, that empties the mag in about 2 seconds, and wastes gas like mad. Its been a while since I have had a Glock 18C in my hands, but if memory serves, the 17 and 18C have a common lower frame, and the barrel/slides are totally interchangeable from frame to frame. Same goes for the 23F and 19. Someone correct me if I am wrong about this, but I am almost 100% sure about this. Sadly I haven't had a Glock 18C in about 4 years.

The blowback chamber on the Full-Auto and Semi-Auto Glocks ARE NOT the same. You cannot fit the blowback chamber from a FA into the slide of a SA, or vice versa.

[Shinjin_MC]

technically its not the gas that cools, its the liquid form that cools
and so doesnt evaporate as readily to form the pressure in the magazine
more gas in liquid form is expelled when it is fired

[Mysteryfish]

ALSO from experience (I tried this very modification)


It doesn't work. It works "ok", but not enough to call it a success.

As stated, the hammer simply follows the slide into battery.

Running on frozen green gas or duster works, because the hammer has enough force to open the valve, but the result is a measly burping, and a slow ROF.

The only truly effective way to do this would be to have a mechanism which (when switched) actually locks the hammer back, but as the slide returns to battery, trips another sear which releases the hammer (as the trigger would in semi auto).

This would allow the hammer enough striking force to open the valve with higher pressure gas inside, and result in an impressive power output, and a better (more reliable/consistent) rate of fire.

This mod though, i believe, would take quite a bit more planning.

[ressamp]

Yeah, I... don't think so. Its kinda useless... Because what good is a gun that empties its mag without stopping in 2 seconds.

[juicy]

Originally Posted by ressamp

Yeah, I... don't think so. Its kinda useless... Because what good is a gun that empties its mag without stopping in 2 seconds.

Holy necro! Thread dates back to 2005 lol

[audi_bhoy]

Yeah but it has been linked in a recent post about full auto pistols, the guy might not have seen the date XD.