using duster

[bareass]

hey all, I just bought a tm g18C. it is recommended to use 134a which we all no is getting harder and harder to find.

i hear places that difluoroethane is no good to use, but haven't found an actuall report of it being bad for the seals.

if found this chart that reccemends elastimer orings to be used with difluoroethane. http://www.pspglobal.com/fluid-compa...emicals-f.html ... but i'm not sure what type of orings are in mags.

so where did this rumour start. i want to use duster when running auto, and don't want to hurt the gun. but at the same time, don't want to be wasting money and time, sourcing 134a, if i don't need to.

i've searched around, but couldn't find any hard facts stating difluoroethane IS bad for the seals. aside from people saying "i used it, and my mag leaked after a while." this has happened with all gasses.


this thread is for myself and others interested in using duster over propane.
please leave propane discussion out.

[hattrick]

Go to ANY 'source by circut city" they sell it for about 7$ a can.

-alex

[Styrak]

Use propane. TM guns can handle it.

You won't like the performance/FPS hit you take with duster.

[Drakker]

http://www.technologydirectcanada.co...duct_info.html

It's tetrafluoroethane, so no worries using it. :)

[HeadlessChicken]

If you've got a Costco membership, they sell the 6 pack for a pretty decent price though I can't remember exactly but I think it worked out to be a little over $5/can.

[bareass]

the source is 9.99 per 12oz can. going to check costco.
bestbuy didn't have.
as for the propane, like i said, please leave propane out of this discussion. i know it shoots better, but the frame needs to be modified, and a metal slide needs to be installed with recoil buffers.

[coach]

Just read the can and make sure it's not Difluoroethane and is tetrafluoroethane.

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by bareass

the source is 9.99 per 12oz can. going to check costco.
bestbuy didn't have.
as for the propane, like i said, please leave propane out of this discussion. i know it shoots better, but the frame needs to be modified, and a metal slide needs to be installed with recoil buffers.

Hmm, you said "don't leave propane discussion out".
But really, TM guns can take propane fine. They won' explode or fall into pieces.

[kullwarrior]

Originally Posted by Styrak

Hmm, you said "don't leave propane discussion out".
But really, TM guns can take propane fine. They won' explode or fall into pieces.

On Glock its been known otherwise, On Five-seveN you can't use propane with 21 degrees or higher as pressure will break the hopup chamber, slide (there's already a case where the back of the pistol explode into the shooter's face. Thankfully he was wearing eye protection)

Originally Posted by HeadlessChicken

If you've got a Costco membership, they sell the 6 pack for a pretty decent price though I can't remember exactly but I think it worked out to be a little over $5/can.

That's difluroethane, (Falcon) alot less pressure and will degrade O-ring

[shiftsup]

Check out your local Torbram Electric Supply for HFC 134A.

They sell it.

T.E.S. (Windsor) (6.2)
3255 Electricity Drive, Unit A, Windsor, ON, N8W 5J1
t: (519) 988-1065
f: (519) 988-1068

T.E.S. (Kitchener) (3.2)
1455 Strasburg Road, Kitchener, ON, N2R 1H2
t: (519) 894-7266
f: (519) 894-4432

T.E.S. (Waterloo) (11.1)
663 Colby Drive, Waterloo, ON, N2V 1C2
t: (519) 884-7770
f: (519) 884-7774

[bareass]

Originally Posted by Styrak

Hmm, you said "don't leave propane discussion out".

... fixed! :smack:

as for torbram. i checked, their duster is difluor. but the sell freeze spray, which is tetra... 12 bucks a can (10oz)

[m102404]

I'm not sure about "rumours"...but if you want solid info on gases read through MadMax's (Carl) stuff. On here and on his sites GunGas and AI. I can't recall what was said specifically though so far as why one gas damaged seals and the others didn't.

So far as I know...basically you want to keep the seals lubricated and some gases dry them out faster than others. Silicone oil is commonly selected because it's safe for the common o-rings used and can be had in weights light enough to flow/spread without gumming up the works. In addition to keeping them lubricated you want to keep them "set" in place...and it takes a certain amount of gas pressure to do that.

Lastly....you want to use a gas with enough pressure to nicely work the blowback action...but not so much pressure that the components can't handle them. Di-flurowhatever is generally regarded as having too little pressure to work reliably in the temperature ranges we see...Tetra-whatever was ok, but so so in cold weather....Propane seemed to work best for a wide range of temps....red/black gas was generally regarded as too strong for most pistols (i.e. it'll work...but it'll decrease the lifespan of the pistol).

Keep in mind that a lot of these "rules of thumb" were written up a while ago...and don't necessary account for newer gas systems out today.

There's some really knowledgeable guys around here with long histories in paintball that know specifically what types of orings to get for what lubes, where to get them, etc... They don't post much on ASC since the asshat idiots around here slag everyone at the very mention of anything paintball. The communities loss for that kind of behaviour I suppose.

After all that....I'd go with propane + silicone oil for your pistol. Cost of consumables...ease of getting them. You can also get metal slides for your 18C and a stiffer recoil spring will dampen some of the pounding. Glock nozzles are plenty...and easy to swap out if they blow.

[bareass]

the part that concerns me is the hop up. i've heard of them breaking when propane has been used in auto. as of right now, there are no (that i know of) replacement or upgraded hop up units around.

i'm new to the whole gas gun thing, but have been reading what ever i can. the problem with that is there is people reporting about there guns breaking, but not giving good detail to how it was kept/upgraded/ect. we, as the reader, aren't getting the full picture. if the difluor. is not cycling the gun due to low pressure, thats fine. but if one guy said his seals leaked after using it for a season, how do we know it was the gas and not the lack of maintenance. now if there is tested proof then thats good enough for me.

as for using propane, i would like to because of the cost effectiveness of it. but don't want to break my gun and have to pay a ton to get it back up and running. that defeats the purpose. if cheap, or upgradable parts break, thats one thing. but if my hop up breaks it could be months to source a replacement.

is there a pressure reduction nozzle for propane, to run propane at a lower pressure. kind of like the opposite of a high flow valve? these are the things i do not now yet.

thanks for the help so far everyone

[bareass]

also dust off contains a bitterant.... is that a problem?

[teriases]

Originally Posted by bareass

also dust off contains a bitterant.... is that a problem?

You... Tried to inhale it...? Your so silly you...