New gearbox help!

[deejko]

Hello basterds,

I decided to buy a new gearbox (complete), and I'm wondering am I better off by buying a pre-made systema energy M120 gearbox, or is it better to build something from scratch.
I am from Slovenia so there is no problem gettin' the needed parts.

If it's better to build one, can you at least suggest me, what's OK to take, in other words, if anyone is so nice, that he could make a list of parts (build a gearbox on "paper" for me). I'd need about 400FPS give or take 20FPS.

If systema is better, how will and drop-in energy m120 gearbox for M4A1 perform in and M4 CQB-R (MK18MOD0)? Because the barrel length is only 280mm, whereas the M4A1 has 363mm barrel, and I know that it's important to match barrel length with the cylinder.

I'm 22 years old, and been playing for two years, our field limits are 400FPS for assault rifles. I don't really have any experience with building a complete gearbox, so a drop-in gearbox is easier for me, but a local shop expert could build me a gearbox from my specifications. But I would really appreciate it, if someone could "paper build" me a gearbox, so I know which parts to look for.


Thank you for your help!

Bye!!

Dejan from Slovenia

[chaosnemesis]

Unless you're very familiar with GB internals I'd recommend against building your own. A build of your own does give full customizable options but can lead to many problems if you'r not familiar with the brands, parts and how they mesh together.

as far as drop-ins are concerned there are better "bang for the buck" options out there other than the systema energy. I've purchased a couple of g&p dropins and they're great, especially at less than half the price of systema. They've output a very consistant 390 fps on my 363mm 6.03 rifles.

[Con Murder]

Thanks chaos, I was wondering the same thing. My big problem is cost. I did the "upgrade everything but the shell" and boy it was pricey! Now all I want is a sure bet and no trouble with the freaking trigger jumping out on me!

[Azathoth]

Do not buy the Systema energy series. IMO it's almost completely a bunch of marketing BS.

Like chaosnemesis says I recommend you go with a better bang for buck build like G&P.

[deejko]

Is there a big difference between the 7mm Gearbox or the 8mm Gearbox from G&P?

I know that the larger the bearing, the less friction there is, but is it that different?

Thank you.

[chaosnemesis]

the 7mm g&p GB is older and is not reinforcde (at least it doesn't mention it in any descripts) most sites will sell for about 60ish bucks. The new ones come with 8mm bearings and clearly states reinforcement. Shimming is done properly, there isn't an absurd amount of grease left in there really it's good to go out of the box, unlike some other GBs. I've cycled through about 6K bbs on one GB and everything still looks good. Keep in mind I play indoors only through the winter so i can't comment on cold weather durability. However, it's overall build quality gives me enough confidence that i don't care if i dry fire.

[etd]

Buying a complete gearbox in general is cheaper than buying parts individually. As for the systema energy it's garbage. GP is a great idea but make sure
to get a reinforced gearbox to add some extra life to a 400 fps setup.

Edit: I would recommend a src gearbox. The new ones that come
with the gen 3 guns have excellent parts and a fantastic air seal.

[Skladfin]

so... like... before anyone shits on Systema Energy items...


has anyone actually even tried it?

[Azathoth]

Only the complete gearbox. It is very light but and that's about the only thing I can say that is positive about it. There is more discussion on airsoftmechanics in this thread.

I have not disassembled a box or installed the gears. I've considered the cylinder and compression system but opted for Prometheus instead. I was very disappointed with my Systema M120 gearbox, and the revolution.

[Skladfin]

Originally Posted by Azathoth

Only the complete gearbox. It is very light but and that's about the only thing I can say that is positive about it. There is more discussion on airsoftmechanics in this thread.

I have not disassembled a box or installed the gears. I've considered the cylinder and compression system but opted for Prometheus instead. I was very disappointed with my Systema M120 gearbox, and the revolution.

understandable

however those guys on airsoftmechanics are running 500FPS + guns @ 40+ RPS, it's ridiculous anything lasts with them using it.

Like honestly, 40RPS @ 500FPS? Chris Costa doesn't even need that kind of ROF to keep heads down. Personally I find that I need a more realistic standard to see it's practical ability.

[yuhaoyang]

7mm G&P box is shit, every single thing in there either broke, or of such crap quality that they were unusable for me. Really, every single part except for the AR latch and cutoff. But shell is reinforced.
Buy a systema complete with magnum motor, the spring in mine shot maybe 420 out of the box.
Energy.... eeh, give or take it's still a V2 mechbox, and I can't recommend against it because I've never seen one. It's pretty dim-witted in theory though, it just has less inertia, and theoretically should provide a better trigger response and less over-cycling.
Systema's parts are all pretty much good-to-go for 400fps besides the piston, which has a high lemon rate apparently. Revolution is retarded, as nice as it seems, if you break one you're buggered.
Building your own; you can have a pretty easy time with it actually, something like a mix of modify, prometheus, and systema parts all work fine. (Torus shell, prometheus FTK, miscellaneous parts from modify or prometheus, and a systema motor SHOULD work perfectly). Be warned, this will cost around $500. But it's the same price as my full modify build... And that turned out well... *cough*

[chaosnemesis]

It's not that the energy mechbox will perform poorly, i'm sure that it's actually a very good performer. However, price to function just doesn't add up. Is it sooooo amazing that's it's worth triple the price?

[Azathoth]

Originally Posted by Skladfin

understandable

however those guys on airsoftmechanics are running 500FPS + guns @ 40+ RPS, it's ridiculous anything lasts with them using it.

Like honestly, 40RPS @ 500FPS? Chris Costa doesn't even need that kind of ROF to keep heads down. Personally I find that I need a more realistic standard to see it's practical ability.

I do agree with hunterseeker about the decorative carbon fibre. From all of the pictures that I have seen, I cannot see any function.

Also agree with his argument about energy efficiency. Gearbox conversion efficiency is so terrible as is that anything less than a 15% increase is not really acceptable especially at the price point that systema is asking.

I have a rant/bone to pick with Systema marketing or their business practices. Who the fuck runs an AEG motor at 4v? See there press release on energy here: Who the hell runs a 4v battery pack? What is the Amps being made available to the motor? How are these charts remotely relevant.

Chris(t) Costa doesnt care about airsoft. Accuracy by both volume and consistency. If you are behind a thick bush. shooting my .43 through the AEG will get to you EVENTUALLY a real gun would just kill you. I used to be a very strong proponent of tight groups and highly accurate guns and ROF be damned. Now I've shifted more to the middle road, decent ROF (30-40 @ 435FPS alberta limits,) is the sweet spot but you should still be able to hit a man sized target out to 150ft with semi under controlled conditions.

Also those hot guns do last quite a long time, it's only the extreme ROF guns @ high FPS that need repair each game. Honestly, the amount of change in tech over the last 4-5 years has been astounding. 4 years ago people where saying you MUST have SUPER TORQUE gears + an aluminum piston, + Super motor to achieve 400 FPS with reliability. Now the clones are selling at the 400 FPS mark with what we call shit parts.

There is a lesson to be learned by building a no limit gun that can last a full day of gaming. Those GB's are very highly tuned machines that take a lot of work and experience to properly assembly and are good to game. I want to build a custom LMG with the cyclone sector gear, and run a 60+ROF gun @ alberta limits (435). You can take all of that knowledge and apply it to the field limits and have a Solid GB that only needs a good clean, relube, shim every now and then, and will last you many many rounds.


@YuhaoYang
You must have gotten a lemon G&P, the ones that I have worked on have been excellent aside from the Piston and sometimes piston head.

Also the torus shell is pretty Pooh, I cannot run the Siegetek gears in the Torus. However, if you want to keep the torus with all modify parts than that is awesome. But, at that price point you may as well go Prometheus since it is a huge jump in quality over Modify.