Been doing some research.

[Troy T. Moore]

The brand new Jing Gong M4A1.

Sage words from aZn_triXta07. I am a KWA fan myself, but this JG has the trademarks and shoots around 420fps out of the box. It is being marketed as "Lipo ready"

[Donster]

Put it this way. Despite companies like CA improving their QC greatly and even being superior to TM now, everyone can agree that TM guns WILL have out of the box reliability and can be uses from the get go.

[Shirley]

Originally Posted by Troy T. Moore

Sage words from aZn_triXta07. I am a KWA fan myself, but this JG has the trademarks and shoots around 420fps out of the box. It is being marketed as "Lipo ready"

Pfft, JG v2 mechboxes can take lipos... won't even last long with the China stuff. And 420 is too much for a lipo. lol

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by Mr.Hitman

And 420 is too much for a lipo. lol

In what way?

[Kos-Mos]

Originally Posted by The Saint

In what way?

+1

I would like to know how my 450 fps rifle was shooting then... using a 11.1v 1500mAh LiPo?

I ran a stock TM, except metal bushing and spring at 398 for over 5000 round. No wear signs even shown.

I did the same with a stock JG M4 (already metal bushings and shooting around 400). Again, no wear signs.

If you are on a budget, get a clone (JG, Echo1, DBoy, Cyma).
If you can spend a little, go with ICS, CA, G&P (all are metal).
If you can afford to shoot your TV twice, get a Systema or TM with full upgrades.

You get what you pay for, but with a little work, these can all be the same in term of FPS, ROF, battery life and reliability.

[LUTNIT]

The new TM AK's are NOT ver.3's, they are ver.9's. They can't even use standard AEG springs, they use special ver.9 mechbox specific springs, look shorter than normal AEG springs:
http://www.wgcshop.com/pcart/shopper...90_srch_ak74mn

My prediction is TM is shooting themselves in the foot with proprietary AK and M4/16 guns, they can't take most standard aftermarket parts or mags that are now made and used by dozens of different companies.

Also battery doesn't determine if a gun can turn over. I recently ran a 475fps SPR on an almost dead 8.4V 600mAh stick battery, torque up gears, torque type motor, that made all the difference.

[Bissa]

ya, TM is definatly trying to be the only manufactuer of those parts in the market. but i think people will just buy the other manufactuers guns that they already know and can upgrade for relitivly cheap. so asLUTNIT put it they are shooting themselves in the foot. im also kind of curious as to how long the new setup will last, because of the decreased sales.

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by LUTNIT

My prediction is TM is shooting themselves in the foot with proprietary AK and M4/16 guns, they can't take most standard aftermarket parts or mags that are now made and used by dozens of different companies.

You're putting the wagon before the horse, mate. TM's designs established those aftermarket standards in the first place, so they're betting that the market will simply re-establish new standards around new TM designs. Considering how dated the v2 and v3 are, I think a renovation is overdue.

[LUTNIT]

Originally Posted by The Saint

You're putting the wagon before the horse, mate. TM's designs established those aftermarket standards in the first place, so they're betting that the market will simply re-establish new standards around new TM designs. Considering how dated the v2 and v3 are, I think a renovation is overdue.

The thing is TM established the current standards more than a decade ago so they are everywhere and very well established. I see it not so much as "we started this, now we want to update it" but more as "we started this, you guys took it way farther and invested lots more money, but now since we started it years ago we want you to throw buckets of money away changing it."

Me and most airsofters I regularly play with would go for guns that are more reliable, easier to work on, and sound less like sewing machines. I know very few people who give a rats ass about blow back bolts and those that do only want them for wall hangers.

The ver.3 mechbox is established as a rock solid performer through many years of use. To try to replace it with an untested mechbox design that is totally different from anything before isn't usually a great idea. I mean look at the SystemA PTW's, they didn't get really popular in Canada until the MAX series came out, that was something like the 5th or 6th version (based on Japans model year system, not the generation system we commonly know.) Another example would be how Sony came out with the minidisk after the CD was established for portable music. It died in short order even though it had many advantages over CD's.

I guess the point most relevant to this thread is, if you are buying an AK or M4 right now, get a ver.2 or ver.3. When/if the ver.9 becomes big in a couple years, you can swap over then.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by LUTNIT

I know very few people who give a rats ass about blow back bolts and those that do only want them for wall hangers.

I think blowback is INCREDIBLY inticing. There are many people (including myself) who have played whole games with pistols just because they like the recoil/blowback. Otherwise, you might as well be playing laser tag.

And why would blowback be a feature for wallhanging? Recoil isn't exactly the most salient charateristic of a display gun.

[LUTNIT]

Not necessarily wall hanging but just s display gun to play around with at home, not something to field (too afraid of some impossible to find part breaking.)

There are some locals in Ottawa who try to play entire games with just pistols, it never turns out for their favour. I know blowback is more exciting but everyone I know sees it as something else to have break down in the field.

Airsoft like laser tag? Um...since when does laser tag make you bleed?

[Kos-Mos]

It DOES make you bleed.

When you run and turn a corner, just to realise it was a mirror.

Been there, did that.

[Cheesevillage]

Originally Posted by LUTNIT

...Airsoft like laser tag? Um...since when does laser tag make you bleed?

You know what he's talking about. Lasertag is still lasertag even if the person being shot dies.

Don't try and convolute the issue.

[LUTNIT]

huh? um, okay, I don't get it at all...on that same note laser tag = airsoft = paintball, at least from what I understand is being said

Back on topic (since I was the one that went off on a tangent) a thin piece of sheet metal moving 1cm back and forth is not enough to do anything for me. It doesn't look to real, it doesn't add any recoil or anything, and its so small its not really noticeable unless you know its there. The AK blowback system is more attractive from my perspective because the moving part is so much larger and easier to see. The gun still makes the same noise and everything else just with a little 1.5 x 1 cm piece of sheet metal moving back and forth.

I also still stand by my opinion that the ver.9 mechbox in the AK (not sure whats in the new SOPMOD) will not replace the ver.3. I could be wrong, no ones perfect, but chances are everyone will have forgotten this debate by the time the ver.9 overtakes the ver.3 if it does since it will probably take a couple years at least ^_^

[HeadlessChicken]

Just out of curiosity, would the cycling or blow back action cause the rifle to be a bit power hungry?