green gas

[tony123]

Yes! Thats what i got from it anyways.

[krap101]

Well, ime green gas is only filled about 1/2 way, when a propane tank is most likely full. to store more liquid, the psi has to be higher, to keep the molecules together, making a liquid. when you open the valve on a propane tank, more liquid is expanding because of the drop in pressure. I wasn't talking about the sitting pressure inside the mag of the gun because when its full, its full, but then again, i dont have much experience with propane, and i'm just finishing off my 2nd bottle of green gas. but this is my thinking..

one way to change output pressure is to make the opening bigger or smaller, the pressure changes more rapidly, therefore the liquid changes to gas faster, so the output pressure rises.

[Skladfin]

doing our best to make global warming worse

[krap101]

survival of the fittest

[MadMax]

http://www.chemguide.co.uk/physical/...pourpress.html

Highschool ideal gas laws do not apply when a liquid phase (or other phase for that matter) is present.

[krap101]

well we learned about ideal and real gases and stuff so.. But we only skimmed it. Since our first teacher got cancer, another filled in the semester, another subbed for 3 more weeks, and finally another for another 4 months so.. kinda hectic. What this has gotten to is that we are arguing (or at least i am) whether green gas and propane have the same output pressure. in the same container yeah im sure they would, but in this case, im pretty sure they wouldn't.

[Styrak]

Since the fill valves are (mostly i would assume) the same on green gas bottles as they are on a propane adapter, then yes, they would have the same output pressure.

[Cushak]

Originally Posted by Styrak

Since the fill valves are (mostly i would assume) the same on green gas bottles as they are on a propane adapter, then yes, they would have the same output pressure.

Not necessarily (I believe). It depends on what the limiting factor is, wether it's the pressure in the bottles or what the valves limit is.

If there's a pressure difference in the bottles, and the max output of the valves is above the bottles' pressure, you'll have different outputs. Depends on what's bottlenecking it.

Now I said not necessarily because I'm taking what I've recently learned from work about fluid properties and de-bottlenecking fluid pipelines, so it may not apply.

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by Cushak

Not necessarily (I believe). It depends on what the limiting factor is, wether it's the pressure in the bottles or what the valves limit is.

If there's a pressure difference in the bottles, and the max output of the valves is above the bottles' pressure, you'll have different outputs. Depends on what's bottlenecking it.

Now I said not necessarily because I'm taking what I've recently learned from work about fluid properties and de-bottlenecking fluid pipelines, so it may not apply.

Well assuming you have enough gas to be above the pressure of the valve's limit. Otherwise you'd have an almost empty/empty bottle which wouldn't be representative of the normal bottle. If there's a green gas bottle and a propane bottle with adapter, and they have different amounts of gas, and the exact same valves, you would get the same output pressure. This is what the case is, I'm pretty sure. Anyone, feel free to embarass me. :P

[Cushak]

Originally Posted by Styrak

Well assuming you have enough gas to be above the pressure of the valve's limit. Otherwise you'd have an almost empty/empty bottle which wouldn't be representative of the normal bottle. If there's a green gas bottle and a propane bottle with adapter, and they have different amounts of gas, and the exact same valves, you would get the same output pressure. This is what the case is, I'm pretty sure. Anyone, feel free to embarass me. :P

But if the "valve"'s CV value, or K value (again, this may be different for gases, probably is bu w/e) is adequate, output pressure could totally depend on tank pressure (full tanks).

Actually, not matter what it may just depend on tank pressure (even if they're full), as valves, objects, anything with a K factor or like value will give you a pressure drop. So if a full propane tank starts off at a higher pressure than a full green gas tank, you should get a higher output pressure with the propane

**Using what I know about fluid mechanics as briefly explained to me so I could troubleshoot, then later make de-bottlenecking models for the mine I work at. Haven't actually taken any fluid mechanics classes yet. If I'm wrong, please explain it to me so I don't cause the plant to explode :P jk.

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by Cushak

But if the "valve"'s CV value, or K value (again, this may be different for gases, probably is bu w/e) is adequate, output pressure could totally depend on tank pressure (full tanks).

Actually, not matter what it may just depend on tank pressure (even if they're full), as valves, objects, anything with a K factor or like value will give you a pressure drop. So if a full propane tank starts off at a higher pressure than a full green gas tank, you should get a higher output pressure with the propane

**Using what I know about fluid mechanics as briefly explained to me so I could troubleshoot, then later make de-bottlenecking models for the mine I work at. Haven't actually taken any fluid mechanics classes yet. If I'm wrong, please explain it to me so I don't cause the plant to explode :P jk.

Haha don't worry I'm not educated on the subject. But it just makes sense to me that a full bottle of gas exists at a certain ratio of gas to liquid. When the gas is used up (ejected from the bottle), the liquid turns into more gas, keeping it at a pressure equilibrium, and therefore the same pressure. I'm assuming a certain specific gas (propane here) would exists as a gas at the same pressure in both bottles, just having a different amount of liquid present.

[krap101]

yeah thats basically what i was trying to get at but english is only my first language :P. Thanks. I was just saying what seemed right to me, and i have nothing to back it up with except 8 months of high school :P

[surebet]

Originally Posted by krap101

Well, ime green gas is only filled about 1/2 way, when a propane tank is most likely full. to store more liquid, the psi has to be higher, to keep the molecules together, making a liquid. when you open the valve on a propane tank, more liquid is expanding because of the drop in pressure. I wasn't talking about the sitting pressure inside the mag of the gun because when its full, its full, but then again, i dont have much experience with propane, and i'm just finishing off my 2nd bottle of green gas. but this is my thinking..

one way to change output pressure is to make the opening bigger or smaller, the pressure changes more rapidly, therefore the liquid changes to gas faster, so the output pressure rises.

Just a quick addendum to the ½ filled versus fully filled comment:

While there might be a variation on liquid content in a tank, you would have to be batshit insane to fill up completely and compressed air cylender that is pressurised to a point where the gas reverts to a liquid.

You require a certain amount of space in a tank to allow a liquified guass to boil back up to gaseous form.

At any rate, output pressure will be equalish, period. All factors differenciating a green gas tank from a propane tank will only affect capacity, not output.

[krap101]

I'm not sure what were arguing about anymore. Are we arguing that green gas and propane, in the same sized container and in the same amount have the same output pressure, or a can/tank of propane and a can of green gas have the same output pressure? I know that green gas is basically propane with some silicone oil and some smell.

Going back to the co2 example, how is the liquid propelled into the magazine?the gas rises, and some liquid is turned into gas, and it pushes the liquid down. In paintball guns, in cold weather, you need an expansion chamber so you wont blow your o-rings, If not, your fps will be sporadic, and your shots will be inconsistant.


http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=6268

in this thread

Different valves will allow a different amount of gas out, however, the pressure at the outlet of the mag will always be 130PSI at 21 deg. C. If your mag only lets gas (not liquid) out then the gas pressure will drop as the gas makes it’s way through some parts of the gun (the barrel) but will increase as it goes through other parts

the magazine output pressure will always be the same, because essentially propane and green gas are both.. propane. The mags release a certain amount of propane for the gun to function. but that is inside the mag, after it has been filled. Besides probably being filled with more liquid, propane tanks are able to be kept under higher pressure. When the valve opens, and the liquid expands to a gas, the equilibrium is broken, and it will keep changing until the valve is closed and equilibrium is once again achieved, or until there is no longer any liquid to change into gas. The pressure of a propane tank is different than the pressure of a green gas can. There is no way that they have the same psi.