New player VS experienced player psychology

[Ktown Militia]

I'm glad you see finally coming around after ASC backing up my comments that we shared. I was gonna stay out of this but whatev.

Everything that has been said was exactly how myself and others feel.

We both know now that your boys had a different idea of what airsoft was.

Like I've told you before, you guys are totally welcome, its just most of us like the "filmsim" (Dan you coined that one ) and would rather see a body in camo than a bright yellow gun with a guy that doesnt think eyewear was needed and plain clothes.

Anyways, Im sure you've re-thought what has transpired and we can move on to bigger and better things!!

As for your q ont the filmsim thing, I think Dan was trying to say that most of us like the role playing as much as the realism of the sport.

[T_A_N_K]

In a paintball perspective, think about it as gun owners vs renters. Do you really want them on your team? Not really, they don't take sport as seriously and are just there to have a good time. You see them just as targets and useless bodies that are fun to shoot at, that's about it. You have to remember airsoft is not only a sport where you shoot people, but you also have a role to play, and in order to do that, you need to act and look the part. You are trying to actively simulate an environment the best you can.

[Danke]

FilmSim = Firing two guns while jumping through the air.

MILSIM = Someone giving you the gears because you've got the wrong shoelaces for a US Army Ranger, or have 68 round mags instead of 30s.

I like to go back and forth between the two spots myself.

A real hardcore milsimer would turn purple at some of the stuff that passes on the field, and the casual players feel eight inches tall when they show up.

[Bissa]

I think I remember your group showing up at one of the games last year. they are definatly good guys to play with, they kept with the rules and diddn't complain when they got shot.

[Dart]

Originally Posted by bissa

I think I remember your group showing up at one of the games last year. they are definatly good guys to play with, they kept with the rules and diddn't complain when they got shot.

Nope just started this year, wasn't us.

Ah yes so I understand the difference now. Yah some of the milsimmers I am sure would fart a blue duck when they see me... I can't descide on a camo so I got Martpat, Cadpat, Flecktar, a green smeagh, Dickie work boots, 30 round AK mags, and a Beretta m9...
I would like to get into milsim but I mean... If other hardcore players make you feel eight inches tall as you put it... where is the fun in that.

Don't think there are very many like that in AK. But I hve not met many yet.

Mind you I would do well in a desert combat type milsim

[MillerBRo]

Speaking from a Penticon point of view: we have noticed that there are 3 distinct groups running out of Kelowna and they dont enjoy playing with each others group. We were baffled as to why a group of roughly 30 airsofters dont all get together to play.

There are various reasons given when we ask why but what it comes down to is that one or two 'key' people in one or two of the groups drive other players away with their poor attitude and lack of honourable play. Some of it is simply the attitude (which is poor at best) and for others it is not taking hits and complaining about everything (which means when those folks show at our field we tend to have staff follow them around to be sure they take their hits). I wont name names but I have met a few of those folks and have to agree that with them around you wont find too many new people enjoying the AK scene.

So if it isnt about milsim/filmsim its about dickish attitude vs friendly attitude

[Silverthorn]

I think there is a certain balance that is required. No need to go all-out but some basics are essential to "fit in".

I take an example from live-action medieval re-enactement/roleplaying (which I was heavily in before airsoft).

We had people of many types :

1. Full chainmail and real leather garb with expensive latex weapons.

2. Some wore more basic clothing and some look-alike or fake armor with simple duct-tapped weapons.

3. Others would come in the game with little more then a pair of jeans, a t-shirt and a sword.

The first 2 types are perfectly fine. The third type just destroys the mood of the game and is usually not very serious in it's type of play.

Not everyone wants a full set of advanced gear and but some basics are essential to make sure you fit in the game and do not affect the overall mood. Airsoft is a game. Gear is not essential to have fun but airsoft is also a game with a mood/style and it's important to at least not look out of place.

[AngelusNex]

I'm a fairly hardcore milsim (30rnders,and full uniform but I'm not doing a specific impression, moreso to not get shit from people for impersonation than anything) And I LOVE playing against casual players, in skirmishes. The group I play with have been playing for years and we are now plying with another group that is fairly new (all have hicaps, hunter camo and mags stuffed in pockets). I love playing with them though cause it feels like a guerrilla vs military fight. And Hell, having a bunch of noodish casual players on the field just makes the seasoned players look all that much better. THOUGH at a true milsim (BW series and the like) I dislike seeing people with clear guns or hicaps stuffed in pockets and no tac gear, takes away from the environment that is created by the game.

[MillerBRo]

Agreed Silverthorn- and clubs like the SCA have had to form rules to get people to show up in gear that doesnt ruin the mood for others.

Showing up in hunters orange for a game where you are supposed to hide just isnt cool In the least wearing all green or all black pants and shirts is pretty much the lowest acceptable expectation (though when people show up for their first game ever its ok to cut them some slack).

That said I know our local club is fairly accepting of a wider variety of gear- clear and CANSoft guns are totally accepted for example (its just that most of us prefer the real steel look). Some guys do a Mad Max sort of Anarchy look and it works great as a 'Red Team' merc look. As far as we are concerned each player should be concerned with their own gear and not worry so much about what the other guys wear or runs with.

This sort of mentality is pretty alien for most airsoft fields from what we hear?

[Ktown Militia]

Originally Posted by Dart

Nope just started this year, wasn't us.

Ah yes so I understand the difference now. Yah some of the milsimmers I am sure would fart a blue duck when they see me... I can't descide on a camo so I got Martpat, Cadpat, Flecktar, a green smeagh, Dickie work boots, 30 round AK mags, and a Beretta m9...
I would like to get into milsim but I mean... If other hardcore players make you feel eight inches tall as you put it... where is the fun in that.Don't think there are very many like that in AK. But I hve not met many yet.

Mind you I would do well in a desert combat type milsim

Who cares!! Fuck em, and light em up when you play! Once again you are worried about what people think. You've gotten a kit put together pretty quick dart, and thats sweet, it shows you are interested. Dont worry what other people think and just go play, experience it, enjoy it! There wasnt this much drama till you started playing mind games with yourself.

If you do a search on here for threads about AK, you will see this has been going on for a while.

Like Millerbro said, bullshit has been going on for while. I came onto the scene last year at the tail end of it and tried reuniting the groups and there was no budge. Therefore a couple splinter cell groups have arised and the new guys have to suffer with small numbers. I feel "why cant everyone play together" kind of attitude, but its so fucked up that the other groups dont want to come out and play or share where they aree playing. It's really sad.

Now with me being in and out of town, and not playing an active role in the Kelowna Gamedays, you can see that nothing is going on. I've definelty been trying to amp up the scene in Kelowna but its a battle. Its gonna take the communitys help to get things going again and make Kelowna a hub for airsoft.

Anyways, I definelty dont lose sleep over this, but hope the scene gets better.

[MillerBRo]

You shouldnt fret over it Ktown- like I say guys like you and Danke have really turned the mentality of AK around in a very short time. When we do get guys from the different groups showing up at our games at the same time we find they get along with each other great so I suspect that there is hope for a somewhat reunited AK scene (like I said its one or two bad apples that seem to drive the numbers down).

Dart- airsoft is one of the toughest sports to get into because for the longest time there was a bit of an elitist attitude that ran most new players out of the sport. Hell even ASC acknowledged this when they made the Newbie zone as they were tired of some 'pro-airsofters' shitting on every newb. Like Ktown says stick with it and dont let the haters ruin your game and you will find that in a short amount of time you are in tight with some good crew and some even better games.

(I know you are from SA Dan but still you do a great job of supporting airsoft all along the valley)

[MillerBRo]

The other thing to remember is like you said- not everyone is cut out for airsoft.

We have had that sort out here too- one of our local players (who is an excellent example of an airsofter) had a bunch of work buddies come out and it became obvious they were drunk when one of them pee'd into a trench where the field owner was. They were loud and rude and we were not keen to ever see any of them ever again. Needless to say we dont allow drunks to play, and if you are found to be drunk you get booted, but we also have had to become a lot more strict with safety and honour issues too.

Some of it is because we have started running highly structured teen games and we dont put up with any guff from people under 18 if they want to earn the right to play on the field, but mostly it is because we want a more professional attitude from ALL the players. (btw we have found that the underage players are very respectful and play safe because they know they are there on strict terms, on the other hand some of the 'adults' are so problematic that we have had to ban one and a few others are on a short leash lol)

Most of the people seem to appreciate the increased standards actually and we have witnessed more turn around with new players coming back and following the lead of more experienced players.

[zone 69]

Well I like to get into this as i been playing in kelowna for the past three years or so now.

I seen and herd it all and its not as simple as black and white.

Fisrt and most important to me is eye protection. I feel a sealed Goggle is a must but alot of peeps use safety Glasses witch I feel are unsafe to use since I hit someone in the side of his eye dering a game forchantly he was not injerd permanently. But when a club can not even discus and agree on what safe proper eye protection is how could we get anything eles done to move forward to make a safe and fun environment for all to play in.

When it comes to not haveing the gear I know how they feel. When I first started I felt a little out of place and was ridiculed for my cheap e-hobby set up. I simply did not have the cash to drop on a new kit so it took some time and I still have not gotten the ideal kit that suits me, so its just a matter of time and trying new gears untill I find a kit that works for me.

Sometimes I feel it comes down to the haves and have nots.

But for me if a peep shows up to a game I try to be as helpfull as I can offering advice and info to the best of my knowledge of the workings of the guns and where to pick up gears & Accessories.

Then when it comes to the sandbox politics of airsoft in kelowna I have very little to offer as Im keeped out of the loop since Ill play with anyone that shows up to a game and not worry so much about zombie players or how equipped thay are.

I like to think im very forgiving when it comes down to it but theres somethings that upset me like players threatening other players with violence.

[MillerBRo]

good points zone69. 'Specially on Eye protection, it is key as some fool shooting his eye out doesnt do our sport any good.

Dart- really the AK scene is a good one in terms of some very good players making the best of a tough situation. Zone is another example of one of the good players who has always been helpful on the forums and in person. The best thing for any new player to do is to find the players who do all the behind the scenes work to keep the sport running and learn from them.

[zone 69]

On another note when it comes to helping peeps or training them they have to be willing to listen or hear what your trying to tell them.

Unforturely I can only handle training one peep at a time and im by far an expert on this kinda stuff. I just use my common sence on the most part.

Take K-town for example, I started with helping him with his gun and how it worked and how to upgrade it and incourged him to pass on this knowledge to others. Now im working with him on tactics and movements and I hope he will pass his experience off to others.

For the most part if a peep is willing to Learn and become a part of the club and Commuity so im not wasting my time I have no problem helping then out.

So im trying to say if more peeps would be more upfront and willing to give out this secret INFO so they can pass it on to others we would have a stronger base of players for the kelowna club.

Unforuterly for some players this is not just a hobby it a business as well so this INFO holds value in as making cash for there business venchers and I get the feeling that im steping on some peeps toes by giving out my INFO/Sevices for free.