.:::RA-Tech Versus CWI WE M4/M16 Steel Trigger Kits- Which To Buy?:::.

[turok_t]

RA-Tech Versus CWI WE M4/M16 Steel Trigger Kits

INTRODUCTION

After some experience with using both the RA-Tech and CWI Airsoft, I just had to write-up my initial impressions regarding the functionality and fitment of both trigger sets. This will be a quick summary of my thoughts and ideas, and by no means an exhaustive comparison. Please use this summary with a grain of salt, as I do not hold any responsibility for your decision in purchasing either trigger sets. It would be critical to possess a basic understanding of the functions and mechanics of the trigger components before proceeding to read this summary.

While inspecting both trigger sets, the RA-Tech is more aesthetically pleasing and has the steel finish/gun metal grey tone. The CWI trigger set is also steel, but has more of a tinted brown/purple color with a smoother finish. The cut on the RA-Tech parts seem to be more curved and rounded, as opposed to the CWI counterparts which have more sharp and straight cuts. Overall, the design and specifications of the CWI trigger set seems to be closed to the stock WE design.

Furthermore, the RA-Tech trigger set comes with the roller bearing on the hammer, while the CWI trigger does not. As such, you need to remove the pin and roller from your stock hammer. However, to make up for this loss, CWI includes a pair of cylinder thingies (not the pin) that holds the hammer and trigger/disconnector in the trigger box.

TRIGGER

On the left, we have the RA-Tech trigger, and on the right we have the CWI trigger. Both hammers appear the same with minor differences. First, the CWI trigger is slightly more sharp and may be irritating for some individuals. If you are wearing gloves during games, it shouldn’t be a problem. Also, if you look on the RA-Tech trigger, the top edge is completely straight, but on the CWI trigger, there is a slight step about ¼ at the end of the trigger. This doesn’t really affect the functionality of the gun, just the amount of pull on the trigger when the gun is switched to safe. Overall, both look very similar.

DISCONNECTOR

Again, on the left, we have the RA-Tech disconnector, and on the right we have the CWI disconnector. The most noticeable difference when comparing the two is the hook/notch that engages the hammer. Based on my reasoning and experience, I’m guessing that the hook design employed by RA-Tech is to assist the disconnector “catch” the hammer notch when the fire selector is at semi. However, there are times that the hook slips right off the hammer causing the gun to fire in full auto if the trigger. I noticed that when the trigger wasn’t pulled hard enough, the disconnector hook didn’t engage the hammer (i.e. slipped right off the hammer hook). However, pulling the trigger all the way back increases the surface contact/overlap between the two hooks on the hammer and disconnector, and they begin to engage each other with greater tension. Thus, full auto does not occur on semi when the trigger is pulled all the way back.

On the other hand, this problem was non-existing with the CWI disconnector. Regardless of how hard I depressed the trigger, the disconnector hook always engaged the hammer. When trying to determine the reason why the CWI was more successful than the RA-Tech in catching the hammer on semi, I came to the conclusion that the 90 degree angled notch is more reliable, as it exerts more downward pressure due to greater contact with the hammer notch. On the RA-Tech counterpart, since the disconnector and hammer hooks are both curved, the overlap is less, and hence, the engagement is reduced. Just imagine the ends of two hooks clinging on to each other at its thinnest section.

Before I discuss the hammer, one more point needs to be discussed. When the fire selector is on semi and when the trigger is pulled, the bolt cycles backwards and cocks the hammer (trigger still depressed). As the hammer begins to be pulled back, it will be caught by the disconnector (you will hear the first click). As soon as the trigger is released, the hammer rotates slightly forward and will then be caught by the sear on the trigger (you will hear a second click) in preparation for the next shot. This leads me to an important point. On older versions of RA-Tech trigger kits, the hammer DOES NOT rotate slightly forward even after the trigger is released. This is because the hooks on the hammer and disconnector or soo curved that they can not be released unless the trigger is manually pushed forward. This has happened on 3 consecutive trigger sets I have tried, and I have even expressed this issue to other ASC members. For these trigger sets, they need to be gradually worked in so parts and worn out to perform normally.

On newer versions of RA-Tech trigger kit, this issue is absent. The hooks are less curved and the operate normally. How do you tell the difference between both versions? The newer ones are usually darker in color, and the roller on the hammer is black. The older one is usually a lighter grey and the roller on the hammer is aluminum. However, even for the newer RA-Tech trigger kits, there are times when full auto occurs on semi. This is again, the hook design that RA-Tech implemented.

HAMMER

Again, RA-Tech on the left, CWI on the right. Similar to the disconnector, the RA-Tech hammer uses the same hook design leading to the same problem I discussed above. Four other issues I want to discuss. First, looking at the notch at the bottom of the RA-Tech hammer reveals that it is much deeper than the CWI hammer. What are the implications? First it is important to understand the purpose of this notch. This is the notch that the sear on the trigger engages to cock the hammer. When the notch is cut deeper, it means that the trigger needs to be pulled back more in order for the sear to slide out of the notch for the hammer to strike.

Second, I compared two newer version RA-Tech hammers side by side. To my surprise, one of the notches had a cut that was less tilted/angled. After installing this hammer in the trigger box, it caused the trigger to be “sticky.” Let me explain. When the fire selector was on safe and the hammer was cocked, the trigger can be pulled slightly, but would not reset/return to its normal position. Why does this happen? My guess is that since the notch angle on the hammer is less, it applied a lot more pressure on the sear of the trigger. When opposing tensions between two parts occur, they simply get stuck and get stuck. As a result, a simple tap on the hammer resetted the trigger with ease. I was quite surprised to find such variance between hammers from RA-Tech. The CWI hammer conforms more with the stock WE hammer.

Third, as previously mentioned, when the selector is set to semi, the hammer is first caught by the disconnector (first click), followed by the sear on the trigger (second click). Based on my experience, the timing for the CWI trigger set is much quicker and more reliable. This means that the time between the first and second click you hear is much faster.

Last and most important. This was the deal breaker for me. A side by side comparison of the hammers inside the trigger box reveals that the RA-Tech hammer is slightly higher. This slight difference has major implications especially for players who want or own the RA-Tech steel bolts. Because the hammer height is higher, it pushes upward on the bottom of the steel bolt. As such, many users experience difficulty when pulling the bolt (via the charging handle) to cock the hammer. In order to solve this issue, the underside of the RA-Tech bolt needs to be grinded to accommodate the increase height of the hammer (refer to my modding guide), or the hammer needs to be truncated. If you are modding the bolt, the bottom surface is very thin. If too much material is removed, you will create a hole straight down where the nozzle is housed and your $100 RA-Tech bolt becomes a paper weight. I ill advised anyone to dremel this area.

Since the CWI hammer is shorter, it works flawlessly with the RA-Tech steel bolt with no modifications required. It doesn’t push upwards on the bolt, and as such, no added strength is needed to rack the bolt via the charging handle.

CONCLUSION

So what does all this jumbo mumbo mean? Well, given my experiences with both trigger sets, I would use CWI in a heartbeat (I’m using a steel bolt). In fact, all my guns have been changed to CWI trigger kits. The trigger set seems to be much more reliable and more stable, and also, compatible with RA-Tech’s fire pin delay (Part 66) and fire pin. The price is slightly more expensive, but in my opinion, it is much worth it. You may be asking, how reliable is the trigger set down the road? Will it continue to be as stable and reliable? Honestly, I haven’t put enough rounds in my gun to answer this question, but currently, I haven’t experienced any issues to date, even with my real steel fire selector installed. However, as with all mechanical/moving parts, wear and tear is inevitable. Although both RA-Tech and CWI trigger kits are steel, they will probably wear out over time, just not as quickly as the stock WE parts.

Hope this summary is informative for players who are contemplating in upgrading their trigger boxes. I decided to write this summary as many individuals have approached me in person or by messaging me inquiring about steel internals. If you have any questions, or would like to acquire a set of the CWI trigger kit, send me a pm.

If you have any problems with your RA-Tech trigger set, please post it in this thread.

[Eien]

Good to hear there is a better alternative than the RA-Tech trigger kits... didn't want to make all those modifications to the RA-Tech steel BCG... Thanks turok.

[hymnforthewretched]

The issue related to height of the RA Tech hammer may be a case by case issue. I have the RA Tech steel bolt as well as the complete drop in RA Tech trigger box and did not experience the same issue that turok did. I did not need to mod the bolt in my case and pulling the charging handle and cycling is just as good or maybe even slightly better than the stock WE set up. Maybe RA Tech changed something or I got lucky.

[KEVORKIAN]

Where exactly are you getting the CWI trigger sets from? Which online retailer?

[turok_t]

Originally Posted by hymnforthewretched

The issue related to height of the RA Tech hammer may be a case by case issue. I have the RA Tech steel bolt as well as the complete drop in RA Tech trigger box and did not experience the same issue that turok did. I did not need to mod the bolt in my case and pulling the charging handle and cycling is just as good or maybe even slightly better than the stock WE set up. Maybe RA Tech changed something or I got lucky.

Im hoping that RA-Tech actually made the revisions so that we can all reap the effects of having a steel bolt with minimal modifications required! I bought several steel bolts from Jugglez recently (im a gun doc and do upgrades and services for WE M4) and the height of the notch that pulls the hammer is the same height as the first bolts I purchased directly from RA-Tech. However, I noticed that they have grinded more on the edge at the bottom of the newer bolts. This is pretty obvious as the grinded edge is silver in color, and not the steel color. Im guessing that RA-Tech just machined this section on existing bolts. I didn't see any benefits from this though..

[hymnforthewretched]

Ya mine came from there too. I did buy the complete trigger box, not just the trigger parts and install them in the WE box. not sure if that would really make any difference. I did have to do the other mods to get it functional, but not the height mod. After modding the bolt catch and ramping the other areas, everything was buttery. I own the 416, really this shouldn't make a difference over the M4 but who knows. guess i just got lucky with my set up.

[turok_t]

Hmm.. maybe its the height of their trigger box that is messed up.. ill test it out and report back If anyone wants the CWI trigger sets, im going to get Frank to stock them soon. Hopefully it will be cheaper for everyone.

[turok_t]

Here are some updated:

First, I had another client who wanted me to upgrade his gun with RA-Tech steel trigger components. I compared the trigger box and the RA-Tech was machined exactly the same as the stock box. However, the RA-Tech hammer was slightly higher as shown in the picture below. Although the height difference is minimal, the implications are significant especially when you use the RA-Tech steel bolt (the lower surface wasn't machine exactly to spec with the stock WE M4 open bolt)



I installed the RA-Tech trigger pack and the RA-Tech steel bolt without modifying the underside. I can still pull the bolt but I can feel resistance immediately when the bolt attempts to cock the hammer. I grinded the underside of the bolt and that fixed everything. I can now pull the bolt via the charging handle with no resistance at all.

Second, if you are using a RS fire selector (which i highly suggest as they are more durable and stiff so it doesnt wobble), I recommend the CWI trigger set. If you want to continue to use your stock WE M4 fire selector, I think the RA-Tech trigger set should be fine, just dont modify the trigger set. Ive only tested this for a brief time, so Im not sure how it will perform in the long run. Needs more stress testing.

These are my preliminary thoughts..

[turok_t]

From CWI/BB Dragon:

"Many thanks, it is a very detailed and nice summary. Our part use the more harder steel , and study to nice work design. test a long time with WE Original. besides, these parts are really CNC made the sear are liine cutting. Not the "mold-up" or "Lost-wax casting". It is the basic different from RA. Thank you so much to share this and posting . By the way.. the sleeve is very hard steel made also. It is a keypoint also . can really hold the part work stable and smoothly. My Best Regards Robert."

[anj4de]

Hello all

I may have news for this already quite old thread...
Today I have received my Ra Tech steel hammer set that I had ordered here:

http://www.boomarms.com/shop/item.cf.../curr_code/USD

Knowing this thread I measured the steel hammer against the WE one and also compared the height of the two. The two hammers I have are totally identical! Also the Ra Tech one because of having the same dimensions does not stick out higher out of the lower then the WE one did before. To me it looks like RaTech has slightly changed their hammer in the mean time. I do not have a steel bolt (yet) so I can't comment on this combo yet. I hope to get a WE Ra Tech steel bolt soon...the weapon is a WE XM177 open bolt.

cheers
Uwe

[TimePatrol]

Are the CWI triggers still in production? I can't them online anywhere.

[turok_t]

Originally Posted by TimePatrol

Are the CWI triggers still in production? I can't them online anywhere.

No, not anymore