General Opinion on ThunderB grenades

[Danke]

So the consensus is that an object that is difficult to quantify but has potential to cause permanent damage is good to go and anyone who doesn't like it can suck it up?

Can we re-visit the Chinese IR lasers then? You can trust me not to get it in your eyes.

[Azathoth]

Originally Posted by Danke

So the consensus is that an object that is difficult to quantify but has potential to cause permanent damage is good to go and anyone who doesn't like it can suck it up?

Can we re-visit the Chinese IR lasers then? You can trust me not to get it in your eyes.

^ end threads,

also starts new argument.

[Reaver_RRTS]

This just seems like a flame-fest of opinions... I own one, used it once to see what it's like, but I know that I wouldn't want my ears damaged by being beside one as it goes off when I already have a high frequency intolerance in my left ear. Does that mean I want to go into a game wearing ear plugs? Not really, it's uncomfortable to wear them (worked in a machine shop so we had to wear them and I didn't like the feel of it). In the end, it depends on the host's rules and general consensus of the players. The majority have never seen, used nor experienced the effect of a ThunderB, and especially walk on players (children with parents, new players, etc) who don't even know what they are wouldn't know how dangerous they could be. If it were my kid at a field and I knew ThunderB's would be used, I'd be concerned about their hearing. I'd reserve them for mega-games and (were I the host) I would advertise the fact ThunderB's MAY be used at the game BEFORE the game event day, as in you are advertising the game date, state whether ThunderB's would be used or not. If I walked onto a field and found out 10 players had ThunderB's ready to go I'd be concerned about it. Eye protection is mandatory. teeth and ear protection and for that matter skin protection in general is optional but I'm not gunna risk my teeth or my hearing to a bb... or a ThunderB.

[CR0M]

If you sign up to a game that allows them and you dont like them you can do the following:

a.) dont sign up to the game
b.) wear ear plugs
c.) suck it up

its just a game, nobody is twisting arms for you to be at a airsoft game that you feel is unsafe...

[Danke]

The pro & antis on here haven't suggested this yet.

Why not treat them like other potentially harmfull items employed in the game.

Run a certification. Specify a MED. Develop a SOP to deal with Duds.

I think that could work.

[z0ng]

Thunder B's are a whole pile of fun and it's good to hear them get used in games. They definitely get your attention and work effectively as distractions.

Easiest bet here is to follow discretion of the host and/or field. If either party has a problem with ThunderB use and doesn't want them used at their game, so be it those are the rules.

Personally I much rather knowing they can and will be used and to be responsible and protect myself accordingly. I don't have any existing hearing conditions so I've had them go off beside me and haven't felt pain or pressure to the level I would be worried about. I'm all for more personal responsibility and less nerfing.

[Cobrajr122]

Originally Posted by Danke

So the consensus is that an object that is difficult to quantify but has potential to cause permanent damage is good to go and anyone who doesn't like it can suck it up?

Can we re-visit the Chinese IR lasers then? You can trust me not to get it in your eyes.

Earpro is cheap and easily accessible.
Ballistic laser safe glasses/goggles are not cheap, nor do they work for every spectrum.

DDs add a hell of a lot more realism and cool factor than a laser does.

As I have stated many times, those who are worried about their hearing can effectively protect their ears for pennies, not just suck it up.

I'm not saying that every host should allow use / ban them. I am saying leave it up to the host. It is the players responsibility to decide if they want to wear ear pro. If they choose not to, knowing full well that DDs are in use - then yeah, they can suck it up, it was their choice not to wear ear pro.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

A bb down your ear canal has a much higher chance to cause permanent damage to your hearing than the occasional loud noise.

we tolerate getting shot with high moving projectiles.. every impact on exposed skin has the ( remote) possibility to cause a wound that could become infected and result in illness, loss of limb, and death. No one even mentions that risk.. it's clearly tolerated and acceptable.

I don't think Thunder-B grenades should be used in Public games with walk on players and potentially Minors in the mix. the informed consent to play airsoft does not include the use of sound devices implicitly.

I believe that they should be in free and open use within the context of closed games with a defined Roster, with no minors present and in full informed consent of their possible deployment and the risks therein. Then each person has the ability to make the choice if they will participate or not.

so I say again, either they are in and permitted for use, including all the risk that entails or they are out and not used. permitting them under conditions results in interpretation of those conditions, and what NO ONE seems to think about is the possible liability exposure to hosts and players for action for damages in the breach of those conditions, or the perceived breach.

conditions open you to liability, open use with informed consent , closes that door somewhat. ( to a degree that I permit their unrestricted use INDOORS at TTAC3 without incident over hundreds of deployments )

This activity "airsoft" has incumbent with it a myriad of risks for injury and death, and we draw the line at loud noises? really?

[Danke]

Speaking as an old guy who has lost hearing from loud noises (gunshots) I can tell you loud noises do affect your hearing.

Skin grows back, bones heal, teeth can be repaired or replaced.

Vision and hearing loss can't be fixed yet.

Unless the published Db rating is way off these can damage your hearing.

I did all the fuck it I"m young activities and now 30 years later I'm one of those guys saying, "what? speak up". If you guys want to join me you can, but there's no changing your mind at a later date.

[Cobrajr122]

Originally Posted by Danke

If you guys want to join me you can

Exactly, its the individuals choice. If they choose not to wear earpro to a game that allows DDs that that is their choice.

Originally Posted by Cobrajr122

myself and most of my team members all wear ear pro.

I wear earpro to airsoft games, I wear earpro at work whenever we turn on loud machinery or vehicles, I wear earpro when I shoot, and I wear ear pro when participating in motorsports. I take the steps to protect myself so that I can enjoy activities now and still hear in the future.
If other people decide to make the choice not to protect themselves then it is their choice. The choices of those individuals should not destroy an element of gameplay for others.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

My point is , including them with restrictions is dangerous from a liability standpoint.

you add restrictions as a game host, then you had better have a "safety officer" monitoring every deployment, or you are negligent. and that "safety officer" had better have some sort of credentials, or you are negligent.

No restrictions, with clear warnings and informed consent, then it is each person's responsibility to protect themselves or not be there.

in the end this is not a safety issue, it is a risk management issue. We all threw safety out the window when we agreed to be shot with a firearm ( even if it's a unregulated one)

[Danke]

I suspect by mere participation in this conversation you've dropped your pants on liability if that's how it works.

[Trev140_0]

Originally Posted by Danke

I suspect by mere participation in this conversation you've dropped your pants on liability if that's how it works.

Well said.

[derailed]

i bought one
some guys up here are making a short film and using my guns etc
we used the thunder b as a prop uncharged
after the shoot, we were curious
i charged it and detonated it, being a newbie to airsoft, thinking how bad could it be
we were only 4 feet away from it when it went off
WOW!!!!!!
never again, our ears rang for half an hour after!
we learned our lesson
not complaining, it did it's job
won't set it off so close next time
lol