British Pre 95 gear question

[HellRanger]

I'm lookin to acquire some British gear, pre 95 to be more exact.

What king of gear were the regular forces wearing?
Same for the SAS.

I would appreciate some link if you have them.

Hopefully some of you may be able to help me with this.

TIA

[firemachine69]

Weren't they on plain OD BDU's pre-'95? (Reg forces anyways)

[SF]

Its called 58 webbing, made of heavy duty OD canvas. It was used from the 60's-early 90's(Falklands, Northern Ireland, Desert Storm, etc). I have a new unissued set for sale. If interested, pm me.

[Kutter]

How far back do you want to go? The Brits have been using DPM since 1969 although there have been different patterns along the way. The first was Pattern 68:
http://www.henrikc.dk/camouflage/details.asp?autono=32
After the Falklands they switched to Pattern 84:
http://www.henrikc.dk/camouflage/details.asp?autono=34
Desert Storm saw the issue of the first desert DPM pattern:
http://www.henrikc.dk/camouflage/details.asp?autono=3

As for the webbing The pattern 56 mentioned earlier was used up until the late 80s when it began to be replace by the nylon PLCE webbing. Earlier patterns were green but later versions were in DPM:
http://royalmarines.mine.nu/gears.php
http://www.practicalairsoft.co.uk/plce-assembly.asp

For headgear the steel Tommy Helmet was used up until the early 80s until it was replaced by the current kevlar (GS Mk6) one. From what I've seen the Kevlar helmet made its first appearence during the Falklands but it seems to have been on a very limited basis (probably for field test). It didn't become really widespread until the mid/late 80s.

[made Man]

what about http://www.web-tex.co.uk/ stuff?

[Yuxi]

Originally Posted by made Man

what about http://www.web-tex.co.uk/ stuff?

Webtex is mostly just junky lower end DPM gear.

[Lisa]

you might also consider asking some of the UK guys over on http://www.ukasc.net/ some of them have been in the services and could easily give you the info you're looking for.

[royal marine]

the sas & para's wear a newer lighter kevlar helmet now than the mk 6, that will set you back around 100 pounds. the dpm they use now is combat 95, alot of the guys use the webtex assault vest. you can pick up a mk6 helmet for around 10 quid.

[Drake]

Kutter pretty much covered it.

95 pattern (S95) is current issue, DPM.

There's 84 pattern DPM, which looks pretty much the same in terms of DPM-pattern but the clothing (specially the smocks) is cut differently. 84 pattern uses sewn on buttons, for example, whereas S95 uses canadian-style tape buttons. I've noticed a few variations in the coloring of the 84 stuff, depending on when it was made I guess (I own a few).

There's a rare-ish 94 pattern, which is similar to S95 design-wise. It typically features a noticeable "mustard" color hue to the DPM pattern. (hard to explain, but you'd recognize it if you saw it now that you know)

And finally, there's the original 68 pattern DPM. The smocks have a full-length cotton lining (green), metal zippers, and they're just all around comfortable to death. I wear mine all the time in the fall.


As for webbing and stuff, you can find 58 pattern webbing in the surpluses on St-Laurent (Montreal).. I know International had a bunch. Otherwise you're looking at either OD or DPM PLCE (depending on the era), or an assault vest (but then you're current).

Also, if you're planning on carrying an actual, substancial load (milsim/camping) beware of the 58 stuff, it's not very comfortable (canvas, not really waterproof, unpadded straps, etc)

[MiniMcNabb]

For pre-95 SAS it depends if you want to portray the 1980s (pre-PLCE) or 1990-1995 period.

The uniform for both would be pretty much the same. Jungle trousers, SAS smock, windproof trousers (in bergen to wear over jungles) and either a norwegian (sp?) army shirt or later a helly hansen thermal top. Jungle boots were also quite popular.

Now, before 1990 gear was really mix and match.

webbing would typically be a P58 belt with a roll pin buckle (nicked from the RAF cargo straps) yolke depended on user preference. Sometimes guys would cut a peice off a sleeping pad to line the inside of the belt.
Pouches used were a wide range. There are specific "SAS" pouches that were custom made for 20, 30 rnd M16 mags aswell as those made for the SLR magazines. ALICE M16 mag pouches were also popular aswell as P44 basic pouches.
Most guys would have 2 water bottles. These could be P44 metal water bottles (very popular in the regiment) in P44 w/b pouches or P58 bottles. Its safe to say that american bottles were also used. Some guys who did not want to use the P44 pouches would sew together 3-5 P58 w/b pouches. This would hold 1-3 bottles aswell as an emergency ration kit and E&E items.
Also used were the "sas" escape ration pouch and the SUIT pouch. There would also often be a P44 or P58 compass pouch.
Here are some examples of accepted setups:
ex1
-P58 belt with roll pin buckle and yoke
-P44 compass pouch
-"SAS ammo pouch"
-2x P44 water bottles with pouches
-SAS escape pouch
-SUIT pouch

ex2
-P58 belt, roll pin buckle and yoke. Belt pad made out of sleeping mat.
-2x ALICE M16 ammo pouches
-4 P58 water bottle pouches sewn together.

Generally SAS webbing was kept as light as possible. Ammo, water and basic survival kit, all else is kept in the bergen. The bergen would be either the issue "sas" bergen, Cyclops berghaus, alice or some other european commercial ruck. Its been said to me that a wool watch cap and a huge bergen are the most essential part of an SAS impression.

Once the early OG plce was introduced you will see an even wider range of belt kit in use. Basically all the above pouches plus the OG PLCE webbing pouches, so it really boils down to user preference. Also you could expect to see artkis, sass and other custom pouches in use. Basically the key would be to have a belt kit that is lightweight holding only essentials as well as being comfortable and functional/well thought out. The troopers would have probably spent hours tinkering untill it was just right.

Since this is my main period of concentration for collecting kit these days I have alot of material I could send you (pictures etc...) if you are really interested in going this route. If you want add me to msn and we can discuss further.