First Gun

[jareyes]

Hey all, I'm new here and was wondering what my first gun should be. I've already settled on it being an m4 (as a good majority of other airsoft players have, I know), but I'm looking for something that's got a good number of features on it.

What I mean is that I'm looking for an M4 (preferably AEG over Gas, if only for the cost) that has a *looks to the sky and prays* a functional bolt catch and a decent recoil feel. I'm aware that the new TM M4A1 has it, but I'm also aware that those are not presently in Canada.

I've got a budget up to $1000 for just the gun, so I'm wondering: can you guys tell me which airsoft models have these features, more importantly the bolt catch? As for the recoil, for all the people out there who don't have airsoft guns that produce recoil, do you feel it takes away from the experience? Thanks!

[Mitchell12]

Recoil almost always breaks your Mechbox quicker, Except for that one that uses a pneumatic return for the bolt. Can't remember the brand.

Anyways It's advisable to avoid electronic recoil as it's just way more stuff to break. I personally don't miss having recoil. Yea sure I'd love it in a gas gun but with AEG's its just not really feasible with a standard design.

[Styrak]

No other AEG's have the bolt catch, other than the the TM SOPMOD M4 and Systema PTW (which isn't even really functional). And of course you mentioned the gas rifles.

If you get a King Arms metal body you get a really weak version of a bolt catch.

[yuhaoyang]

If you really do want a bolt catch and recoil, you can look into getting a retailer to import you a TM sopmod, this with the mags has a chance of running over $1000. There are some new EBB CAs that will have a bolt catch, although most blowback mechanisms on AEGs are for mostly cosmetic purposes. Some newer AEGs I think do have bolt catches, but they are pretty rare, I think AATV reviewed some. Anyways, for $1000, any AEG M4 under a systema will be avalible to you. It isn't really nessesary to have a functional bolt catch on an AEG though, because it serves no purpose at all except to make the hop-up wheel easier to access. Consider a proline CA M15A4 carbine, or one of the G&P guns.

[L473ncy]

Well you're AV'ed so just take a look at the classifieds and surf around waiting for a good deal to pop up.

Think about it first though. You don't really know what a good deal is but just browse through the old for sale archives to find the going price for something similar to what you want then buy based off that.

eg. I want an AK I don't know what a "good deal" is so I would take a look at the for sale archives and see what the approximate price of an AK goes for, what the extra goodies/packages go for etc.

That way when I actually go to purchase I'll have a rough estimate of what a package is worth and how much I should pay for it.

[m102404]

If you want a bolt catch that actually releases a hefty bolt and not a little snap of a little piece of metal sheet (a la Star/Ares, KA)...you've got to go with a GBB M4.

From the very limited handling I've had...the both the WE v2 and Inokatsu handle about the same. Nothing earth shattering about the external appearances. Both hefty and solid. I liked the finish of the WE better...but that's really a minor thing.

For performance...the Ino was about twice as much fun as the WE. If the WE was at the "this is great compared to an AEG....but not quite like a centerfire rifle" line....the Ino was just past the "F*CK, this thing rocks!" line.

Mags are horribly expensive (est $100 each)! Lot of parts available. All expensive.

Clone GBB M4's coming out...but you'd be reasonable to expect there to be a difference between a $1500 rifle and a $300 copy.

Aside from the cost....I'd really want to see the shot/shot consistency improve in rapid fire semi/full. As with any GBB, power drops off sharply from "cool down" of the mag.

Best thing to do is to try before you buy. Get out to the games...chat it up with the guys.

Tys

[jareyes]

Hey guys, thanks for all the advice! Incredibly helpful and with all the points brought up (GBB's being excessively expensive and experimental, mags and parts also expensive, etc.) I'm definitely leaning towards an AEG. More specifically, after reading a thread on it, it has been brought to my attention that the STAR M4A1 has a functional bolt catch? Can anyone verify this?

Actually, any opinions and thoughts on STAR in general, their quality and m4's? From what I understand so far, they're pretty good.
If there are threads on here that go into detail about STAR feel welcome to direct me there, thanks again.

Edit: SORRY! Just found a STAR M4A1 review. I shall read that and then comment again. Still though, thanks guys for everything; incredibly helpful.

[m102404]

They're very nice.

The bolt catch does work (don't expect much...it's just a little "snap" of the fake bolt clicking forward).

Consider the compatibility of the parts (especially the mechbox shell)...in case you break something, how long/easy/$$ will it be to get replacements.

Tys

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by jareyes

Hey guys, thanks for all the advice! Incredibly helpful and with all the points brought up (GBB's being excessively expensive and experimental, mags and parts also expensive, etc.) I'm definitely leaning towards an AEG. More specifically, after reading a thread on it, it has been brought to my attention that the STAR M4A1 has a functional bolt catch? Can anyone verify this?

Actually, any opinions and thoughts on STAR in general, their quality and m4's? From what I understand so far, they're pretty good.
If there are threads on here that go into detail about STAR feel welcome to direct me there, thanks again.

Edit: SORRY! Just found a STAR M4A1 review. I shall read that and then comment again. Still though, thanks guys for everything; incredibly helpful.

Well can't speak for the quality of the Star M4 but if you are looking for a best bang for the buck type of AEG you can't go wrong with any King Arms, the quality of their body is far superior to any other clone and if the blowback thing give you a rise then their current Galil and the Holo556 series have blowback, Their M4 Troy series all have working bolt catch.

[SuperCriollo]

in my opinion i higly dont recomend you to put all your money in your first gun, with 400 dls you can buy a good gun that would do the job, and them if you like the sport you can put more money in your stuff.
is just my opinion, do what ever you want.

[yuhaoyang]

buy a good brand, sell for similar value. buy a cheap brand, depreciation.

[ThunderCactus]

Can't go wrong with a G&P
As long as you get the gears shimmed before you use the gun it'll last a long while, and that's through real field experience
And the huge added bonus that you'll never need to buy metal parts for it!

[jareyes]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate all this feedback, really such a huge collection of knowledge.

Realistically speaking, after reading the review on the STAR M4A1 I'm not too interested in it. I'm think I'm a little more inclined to liking the King Arms M4 a little better, as suggested by wildcard (pending further reading though). I understand it has a working bolt catch but I couldn't find any videos where they actually fire it.. does the bolt lock back when the bb's stop feeding? The reason I ask is because the only reason I want a working bolt catch is so that I know definitively when to reload and so that the gun does not fire when there are no more rounds, for the sake of realism I suppose.

Secondly, does anyone know/is able to describe to me/is able to direct me to somewhere that analyzes in depth how bolt catch systems work in some airsoft guns? I'm curious to know if it's got to do with how the gearbox is arranged or..??? Goes without saying it's pretty tough to visualize or imagine what it looks like or how it works without having an actual gun but yes, thanks again for all your help guys.

[m102404]

Bolt catches & no dry firing on an empty mag

First off...aside from the latest GBB (gas blow back) rifles...no "typical" AEGs have a bolt per-se.

Some have a flimsy fake bolt made of thin sheet metal. Imagine a business card imprinted with an image of a "bolt".

On a lot of "old"/"traditional" AEGs...this fake bolt did nothing except hide/cover the mechbox. On some, it simply slid back so you could access the hopup unit adjusting wheel. On others...they weren't even movable.

On some "fancy" bodies...and on some makes (i.e. Star M4)...the fake bolt (still the thin sheet of embossed tin) would be retracted as you pulled the charging handle back and it would catch on a latch and be held back when the charging handle sprung forward. The bolt release would then trip the catch when you pushed the release tab. The bolt cover would snap forward with a little clink/click. Oooooh...aaahhhhh. Just about that exciting.

On some new G&G Blowback units...the thin tin sheet fake bolt cover has been expanded and operates on the movement of a piston. This piston rides piggy back on the main mechbox cylinder and air pressure is used to operate it. As the piston extends and contracts...the fake bolt goes clickety-clack back and forth with each shot. Ooooh...aaaahhhh. Noise every shot...

On a really old "Guarder Auto Back" system (I think it was AK specific)....you would mod your mechbox, install a rod that moved back and forth with the piston/spring. This rod would pull the AK bolt (which is a fake bolt...but not a little tin sheet) as the piston compressed the spring...and it would shoot forward as the piston went forward. Lots of noise....lots of action...busted up pistons/parts...

DonP modded a Triggermaster moseft unit on an M4 with a little pressure switch that sensed when a mag was inserted...and the chip "counted" shots and would force a mag change at 30 rounds. Never really took off...but awesome work and good stuff. His stuff is on Unconventional Airsoft.

NONE of these systems (except Don's) stopped/stops the AEG from shooting if there's no more bbs left in the mag. They'll all dryfire.

A Systema PTW (that's actually working properly...) will cut off when the mag is empty. Pulling the trigger with an empty mag will do nothing. Dropping the mag and pulling the trigger will result in nothing. Insert a fresh mag and tap the bolt release...and it'll shoot again. There's no bolt, not even a fake one, so there's not clickety-clack of anything but the piston.

So...if you want the best realism available at the moment...(i.e. big bolt racking back with each shot, recoil, functional charging handle and bolt release, no shot if there's no mag, bolt locks back when empty)...get a GBB M4. $1300-1800 for the rifle, $50-100/mag.

NOTE: Most of this bolt stuff relates to M4's...the bolt of an AK doesn't lock back. Haven't seen/heard much re MP5's.

[SHÖCK]

King Arms Troy has the bolt catch like Styrak says. VFC has bolt catch as well but discontinued and rare.

As far as electric blowback - CA blowback AEGs have much more movement and better design than G&G ones.