ICS L85 binding issues

[kalnaren]

Anyone know anything about ICS L85?

I aquired a used one a short while ago, and the gun doesn't perform well at all. I originally assumed the battery I got with it was fucked, as it would fire about 5 shots them lock up.

I recently tried a different battery, and even with a full charge the ROF was abysmal, and that was for the 5 or so shots before the MB completely locked itself up. Sometimes a shot in full auto unlocked it, but it's pretty damned well siezed right now. Sounds like there's some major binding going on but I opened it up and it looks ok to my untrained eye (shimming isn't terrible, might re-do it anyway). I don't know jack about the V? L85 mechbox.

Any suggestions?

[Shooting Addict]

Lol i was just about to start a similar thread for my MP5, i have the same fucking problem.

[kalnaren]

Ok...

So I pulled it apart again today. This time, I found some tiny metal flakes in the mechbox in 2 locations: First is around the bevel gear where the motor shaft comes through, second was at the top at the back near the spring guide. I was unable to figure out where the flakes came from. They may have been there the first time, I didn't pull everything out the first time I took it apart. This time I pulled everything out of the shell.

I cleaned out all the grease in the mechbox and regreased it, checked the shimming (it seemed ok to me), and reassembled. Same deal. It doesn't work. I can hear to motor humming and the battery gets warm rather quick so I know something is physically binding.

Unfortunetly I'm at a loss to figure out what it is. The L85 mechbox is shaped such that you can't manually spin the gears once the shell is closed. Will I hurt anything if I pull out the tappet plate, piston, spring, and spring guide and fire it?

[diamond_SEA]

Ive had my L85 for a week now and havent had any issues with locking or mechbox. Hopup on the other hand.....

I dont know if shooting with no spring is a good idea. To me its like a short circuit, without a load, the gears may spin too fast and be further damaged

[Geoffrey B.]

Same thing happened to me with my g36 except my gear box screamed at me :P

[kalnaren]

The thing is though the L85 mechbox has significantly less components in it than any other one I've looked at... seriously, it makes even a V6 look overly complex. I honeslty can't even think of anything in it that could be causing this.

Things I know:
-I know the piston will move freely. It will slide by gravity alone (when I take out the spring/spring guide it can move freely).
-The gears seem to turn fine (hard to confirm though)
-The tappet plate and nozzel move fine.
-There's literally nothing else in this mechbox.

[Styrak]

Are you sure it's shimmed correctly? Did you screw the mechbox halves together and spin the gears (somehow, i know you said it's hard, remove the cylinder and see if you can reach through there.). That's the only way to be sure they're free-spinning and not the source of your lock-up.

[kalnaren]

Well I've confirmed it's not the shimming. Managed to get the edge of my finger in by the cylinder window and give them a spin... they spin really quite freely. I was rather impressed.

Now I'm starting to suspect the motor. How would one go about troubleshooting that?

[Mobbs]

I don't know if this has any bearing but this may help,could it be the magnetic trigger,new on the l85,mine binds every once and a while..

[kalnaren]

No idea. I don't know enough about how the L85 trigger mechanism works to know how it might effect the mechbox.

[Eien]

My L85 locked up just once going through a hi-cap and I just got it a couple days ago. I don't think its the mechbox but instead could be the trigger box or box above it. I could be wrong but I sorta agree with mobbs.

[Amos]

I'll be having one on my desk shortly... I'll try to figure things out

[Wrath144]

I got an ICS L85 (the one Amos was going to work on) yesterday and within the first hicap either the piston or sector gear stripped or shattered. The gears turned for a little bit and moved the tappet/nozzle (loaded bb's) but did not cycle the piston. It then proceeded to completely bind up and blow the fuse. Luckily Mach1 was there to help and I sent it back and will probably get a new one.
As for your problem, running the mechbox for a short time without the compression components won't wreck anything as the motor and switch has enough resistance on their own to limit the current running through it. It'd be similar to running an RC car while holding its wheels off the ground. Just limit the trigger time and there shouldn't be any heat buildup.

[kalnaren]

That's for the suggestion. At this point though I've taken it in to some local gundocs to take a look at.

[Sha Do]

With the last batch of ICS MX5 A5s we worked on, we found that the M100 springs that ICS had shipped out to use had a slightly larger diameter than a standard spring diameter. We found that this "over sized" spring sometimes allowed the spring to "jump" out of position and over the tail of the spring guide during the spring compression cycle. This causes the piston to lock up before it has been completely compressed, locking the gears in the process.
It is very difficult to diagnose other than the inside edge of the piston will show minor, but unusual scoring.
ICS has been notified of this issue.
Simply check to make sure that your spring is not "over sized" by comparing it to how it is seating on the spring guide (if it is sits flush with the bottom sides of the spring guide it is good, but if the spring sits over the edge of the spring guide by more than a millimeter, switch it for another spring).

As well;
I worked an ICS L85 today for one of the customers out west and found that ICS is shipping the L85 with an aluminum half tooth piston.
What we found by working with the customer is that any reinforced piston that is installed must either be a half tooth piston and/or you must trim off the lower left block of the last tooth on the piston (the back of the piston) on the side that the spur gear is close to); read below as to why.
By request of the customer we installed a stock TM nylon piston to replace the broken aluminum piston and the gun works like a charm.

The issue is the position of the spur gear........ It sits very high in the L85 box design and the piston must have clearance to allow the spur gear not to rub against it...otherwise you'll end up with a sad sounding mech box and risk box lock up. The same symptoms will occur if the spur gear is shimmed too close to the piston.

Hope this is helpful.

SHA DO