WIP: Upgrading Your Tokyo Marui Glock

[e-luder]

Originally Posted by zessy

Good morning!

I am a French new member on this forum. So please excuse me for the faults, I'll do my best on this! I really found it was one of the most interesting and helpful regarding the Glock upgrade...

Before purchasing my Glock, I read carefully everything that was written here, but I still have questions, since I would like advices based on your real experiences with available materials to make the "ultimate" Glock.

So my base is the following:
- Tokyo Marui Glock 17
- complete guarder kit with aluminium slide, frame, 150% recoil spring, steel trigger lever, steel catch magazine, reinforced hammer spring.
- guarder metal night sights

I was very lucky since I didn't have to sand or modify anything to make it fit and work correctly, except the lever pushed by the magazine to lock the slide (it was taking place beside the button instead of pushing it, not a big deal at all). Maybe is this because of the 2013 version, that could have been enhanced by guarder to make it fit better. I was also lucky to find the kit since it is sold out almost everywhere (I ignore if this could due to the legal attacks from Glock against copy of their models).
It cycles perfectly, do not create any shooting issue, and I can shoot more or less two mags before it comes empty of gaz.

That's Great news!
Glad it worked out for you!

I don't really notice a whole lot of difference between the old Guarder frame and the new ones. The only thing noticeable was the fake body pin they added. That "NEW STRUCTURE" they put on the packaging, I find to be false. I don't really see any difference at all unless the frame itself was made of something else...

My interest with this Glock is:
- having the most possible "RS looking like", but it seems that I am on the good way.
- Improve precision and shooting distance, since I use it for target shooting only. I don't care about FPS until they bring a real + for target shooting.

First of all, a strange thing happens with the magazine which is stock, out of the box. On my USP KSC, there is no noise when I fill the gaz. On the Glock, I have a strong "pshiiit" all a long the operation, although the gaz bottle is in the correct position. Don't know if it is normal or not. The magazine fills correctly. Can you please tell me if there is some issue there?

Yes that's normal.
The fill valve on most Marui guns don't have a n extra o-ring like the KSC mags do.

For the rest, I would like to know if some other pieces could enhance distance and precision, without spending money for nothing in pieces that won't bring significant effects...
I was thinking mainly about:
- nozzle
- Aluminium BBU to reduce the weight of the slide
- precision barrel and hop-up rubber (is really the violet Nineball the must?)
- Somehting more important???

THe only thing on this list that will help you gain more distance is the bucking.

You don't HAVE to get the Nineball. There have been better ones that came out after I made this post.

Particularly, the A+ buckings with the hop assist. I hear they are pretty good. I don't normally use them, to be honest. I run the Airsoft Surgeon NON-HOP inner barrel and bucking combo nowadays. Just cause I never really use my hop up anymore since my targets are always pretty close.

Also, remember the weight of your ammunition affects distance. So you should look into that as well.

Accuracy is something that has a lot of variables associated with it.
Ambience plays a huge role. Without knowing where you're shooting, it's impossible to recommend a good set up specific to your battlegrounds.

But you will probably be able to help me with what is fully compatible and interesting all together, and what is to be avoided, useless, or should not be mixed.

I have to say that I am a little bit lost with all the opposite advices I read an all the brands available, always promising the moon.

I also think to go for an aluminium trigger, just for more realism...
On my side, I am about to realize some grouping tests on different distances with the gun correctly blocked on a table to avoid movements. But too much wind today to even think about it.

Than you in advance for your help!!!

Zessy

Aluminum triggers are more novelty more than anything. As you said, they are more for preference more than anything.

The GunsModify trigger is an aluminum trigger with adjustable trigger pull lengths. The thing is, the grub screw for that adjustment tends to just unscrew unless it's loctited. Once loctited, it basically negates the idea of it being "adjustable" in the future. LOL.

[zessy]

Hi,

Many thanks for this quick feedback.
First of all, I am happy for the magazine, I was afraid there were some issue with it...

For the bucking, I imagine this corresponds to hopup rubber, correct?

As a personnal test on it,I just had a poor experience with this supposed fantastic A+ for my usp from KSC, and honestly it makes just shit on this model, even with hop up at the maximum. The bbs fall at 10 to 15 meters. Much worst than with the original rubber from ksc. Maybe the weight of the bbs I use (0.25) is responsible of this, but this isn't really a good experience for such an expensive rubber. If you have an idea on this, I take... I will try it with the excell 0.2 I have in stock, but I don't really have hopes.
So I definitely would prefer to go on something else, that would really demonstrate efficiency.

For the game field, I shoot in my garden, so I am subject to all usual athmospheric constraints. I can have a field of 20 to 50 m more or less.

As said, I use 0.25 bbs, because it seems that heavier gives more precision, even if it loses some distance. I guess I probably didn't found yet the correct balance for this.

For the trigger, I am not even interested in the adjustable system, this would in fact be just for the metal aspect instead of the plastic original. For fun

Too much wind today again for good and accurate grouping tests, unfortunately.

On the kit, I was a bit surprised to find a steel outer barrel with the aluminium slide, but I suppose that guarder provides elements that go all together.
Edit: just found the reason when taking off the slide for a check: the outer barrel rubs inside the slide during the cycle. Having the barrel harder than the slide permits the wear to occur inside the slide instead of on the angle of the outer barrel, which would be very visible, and not so nice at all. Good to know! The barrel loses a little bit of its surface treatment, but keeps its nice sharp shape.

Another step would be to check the correct sealling of the gas route, but I don't have the beginning of an idea on how to proceed. Would a sealing gas route kit bring someting better? Or a new piston, valve... Complete set... Arf... Not so easy to point the really good upgrades!

Just for information, until which distance can I hope to shoot with accuracy with this kind of gbb? Is a 40 m a dream, or is this reachable with an intelligent upgrade?

And last question: except the slide and springs supplied in the guarder kit, should I bring any modification to the magazine or the mechanic to accept correctly the use of green gaz?

Despite the wind, I made a first test by hand, without blocking the gun for perfect stability, and without paying a lot attention to the precision. 16 meters (not a lot at all, but this is a first step) from the target, 24 of the 25 bbs are concentrated in a square of 10 x10 cm, without any effort. I will soon test at 30 and 40 meters, blocking the gun to check what it gives, but this seems promising.

Thanks!

[e-luder]

Originally Posted by zessy

Hi,

Many thanks for this quick feedback.
First of all, I am happy for the magazine, I was afraid there were some issue with it...

For the bucking, I imagine this corresponds to hopup rubber, correct?

Yup.

As a personnal test on it,I just had a poor experience with this supposed fantastic A+ for my usp from KSC, and honestly it makes just shit on this model, even with hop up at the maximum. The bbs fall at 10 to 15 meters. Much worst than with the original rubber from ksc. Maybe the weight of the bbs I use (0.25) is responsible of this, but this isn't really a good experience for such an expensive rubber. If you have an idea on this, I take... I will try it with the excell 0.2 I have in stock, but I don't really have hopes.
So I definitely would prefer to go on something else, that would really demonstrate efficiency.

Keep in mind the KSC hop up system is different in design.

In my opinion, just plainly and purely sux.

I prefer Marui's hop up system simply because it can apply direct pressure to the BB that's necessary to impart the spin it needs to slice through environmetal conditions.

For the game field, I shoot in my garden, so I am subject to all usual athmospheric constraints. I can have a field of 20 to 50 m more or less.

As said, I use 0.25 bbs, because it seems that heavier gives more precision, even if it loses some distance. I guess I probably didn't found yet the correct balance for this.

For the trigger, I am not even interested in the adjustable system, this would in fact be just for the metal aspect instead of the plastic original. For fun

Too much wind today again for good and accurate grouping tests, unfortunately.

On the kit, I was a bit surprised to find a steel outer barrel with the aluminium slide, but I suppose that guarder provides elements that go all together.
Edit: just found the reason when taking off the slide for a check: the outer barrel rubs inside the slide during the cycle. Having the barrel harder than the slide permits the wear to occur inside the slide instead of on the angle of the outer barrel, which would be very visible, and not so nice at all. Good to know! The barrel loses a little bit of its surface treatment, but keeps its nice sharp shape.

Yup. THis tends to happen.

I usually round off the corner on the chamber just to make it easier.
This usually happens because of the fit between the outerbarrel and the hop up unit is a bit off. THe barrel cannot fully tilt at the amount of time the slide travels back. Thus it will rub on the underside of the slide.

There are numerous ways to deal with this issue. You'll have to find one that suits your set up.

Another step would be to check the correct sealling of the gas route, but I don't have the beginning of an idea on how to proceed. Would a sealing gas route kit bring someting better? Or a new piston, valve... Complete set... Arf... Not so easy to point the really good upgrades!

If you're magazine isn't leaking, don't do anything to it.

Opening it up and stuff only ruins the tightness of those pins and can cause major headaches.

If you mean, gas transfer from magazine to slide, the only one way to spot this is if you see mist or gas fly out from the beneath the slide. lol. You will feel less kick in the gun and your slide catch will not engage if the seal is really bad.

Just for information, until which distance can I hope to shoot with accuracy with this kind of gbb? Is a 40 m a dream, or is this reachable with an intelligent upgrade?

40m is pretty long range.

I tune my guns to shoot between 85-95 ft accurately before the bb's start to drop in their flight path. Even then, my ambient conditions have to be pretty good with minimal obstacles for bullet trajectory.

At 40m, you're better off using your primary gun than a pistol...

And last question: except the slide and springs supplied in the guarder kit, should I bring any modification to the magazine or the mechanic to accept correctly the use of green gaz?

No.
Your stock magazine can handle green gas just fine.

Again, if you're magazine isn't leaking, don't do anything to it. This is where leaks start to happen if the magazine is put back the wrong way...

[zessy]

Thanks again!
Noted for the magazine and all the rest. Won't touch anything on it. No gas seems to go out of the slide during the cycles, so this stays as it is.

Good to read and confirm that with the Marui, there is quite nothing to do to get it near pefrect! Really happy with this basis.

I will try to chase info concerning teh slide wear, even if for the moment I don''t have any idea of what I have to look about. I imagine I have to look for a solution permit to place the outer barrel just a little bit lower than it is now?

Noted also for the rub.
I will first make my tests of range / precision with the original system, before eventually upgrading to a new rub and a tanyo koba twist barrel if I am not totally satisfied with what I get here.

For the 40m range of action, you are right, I am probably optimistic . I will certainly review my "wishes" after the tests. Let's see how it comes.
Have a nice day!

[zessy]

Hi,

I just ordered pdi palsonite 6.01 barrels for both my ksc ups and tm glock, directly to the builder in Japan, X-fire, for the incredible price of 46 € for both barrels, shipment offered (special offer of the moment). Less expensive than the barrel in France for only one gun!
Let´s see what it gives once I receive this! I am impatient to check the result with this. A nine ball violet or a+ hop up rub (most probably the nine ball) will soon complete the glock, I will insist with the a+ for the usp, since it is installed already, and not the less expensive of the available rubs...

EDIT: nine ball received and installed: AMAZING! the gain is incredible.
Without paying attention to an accurate adjustment of the hop up, the bbs go straight right more or less 5 meters farer than with the standard TM rub. I earned shooting distance, but most of all, the bbs seem to go straight longer and to fall much later than before. Remains to check precision.
Important to notice: my guarder hammer spring broke and I had to reinstall the marui original one before receiving the rub, I significantly lost in distance with this (guarder slide installed, heavier than the original TM). I'll make another test once I replace this hammer spring, since it significantly changes things with the guarder kit. The gain of distance might be quite different with the correct hammer spring.

[zessy]

Bad surprise today. I was enjoying shooting with the Glock while waiting for my barrel and hop up rub to finally arrive, and then after few shots, no reaction of the trigger...
After dismantling, I saw that the guarder hammer spring, said to be reinforced, is broken.
I have reinstalled the original Marui, but I guess it won't last long.
Is there any real reinforced hammer spring, or am I condemned to buy a collection of guarder to replace regularly?

I see some action 150%, some AIP (both available in France for reasonnable price) or shooters design enhanced (in Asia, with huge shipment expenses, even if it seems to be good stuff): Are all of them equally recommended respecting the guarder (meaning more resistant than the guarder, with the same strength wich was good on my model)?
Any other that I could look for?

Thank you for your answer!

[MaybeStopCalling]

Ladies and gentlemen, I may have a solution to our issue of the front screw post breaking.

Typically, the pattern of breakage has been TM>HK3>Guarder frames (First to last). The Guarder frames eventually break, however, as while they have a brass insert, it doesn't go very deeply, and the post shears where the insert ends.

Today, while I was messing around with my HK3 frame in preparation of a build, I measured the post and found it a hair under 6mm, which fits a WE stock barrel snugly. I realized that I could use this barrel to create a brass sleeve for the post, and since it was a WE stock barrel, work with a dremel would allow me to have half of this sleeve in the pocket created by the trigger guard, allowing me to embed it with JB weld and create a solid foundation for the post. Using this sleeve would mean making the hole in Part 18 larger, but I don't think that should be an issue.

This means that when the gun is fired, the recoil forces on the plastic polymer are shared with the sleeve and this should reduce shear breakage and eliminate post disintegration (With a tight sleeve around the post, fractures would be contained, etc.)

I've included a picture. What are your thoughts, Glock techs? I plan on doing this in the next few days.

[Benderinsertgirder]

The AABB loading nozzle is mentioned in the op; has anyone else used it? Curious about how long it lasted.

[e-luder]

Originally Posted by zessy

Bad surprise today. I was enjoying shooting with the Glock while waiting for my barrel and hop up rub to finally arrive, and then after few shots, no reaction of the trigger...
After dismantling, I saw that the guarder hammer spring, said to be reinforced, is broken.
I have reinstalled the original Marui, but I guess it won't last long.
Is there any real reinforced hammer spring, or am I condemned to buy a collection of guarder to replace regularly?

I see some action 150%, some AIP (both available in France for reasonnable price) or shooters design enhanced (in Asia, with huge shipment expenses, even if it seems to be good stuff): Are all of them equally recommended respecting the guarder (meaning more resistant than the guarder, with the same strength wich was good on my model)?
Any other that I could look for?

Thank you for your answer!

I suggest you go for the Shooter's Design Hammer spring.
I've never once ran into a bad situation with them. You buy one and you'll never have to replace it as frequently as the Guarder ones....

[e-luder]

Originally Posted by Benderinsertgirder

The AABB loading nozzle is mentioned in the op; has anyone else used it? Curious about how long it lasted.

They're pretty crappy in my experience. They don't seal well with the stock piston head and they last a few hundred shots before it decides to crack open like fortune cookie.

My suggestion is to invest in a really good one...

[zessy]

I just would like to bring my stone concerning repairs to do on plastic with a nice tip I learned when my girlfriend broke our brand new car roof case in a parking...
When and only when the plastic is ABS (I hope this is the same name in English than in French, please correct me if not), you can use Lego bricks instead of epoxy...
Lego is ABS. The idea is to reconstruct the broken piece, adding the exact same material, to give it again its original strength. Easy:
- Take a brick of lego of the same color than your broken piece
- Place it in a glass jar with a lid and add a bit of acetone. Not too much, but you should at least fill the brick itself, and have just a bit around
- Close the jar and let few hours
- The lego will solve and create a paste. If it´s too hard, add some acetone. Too liquid, just let the jar open and acetone will evaporate.

When you have a creamy paste, you will need to prepare the piece to weld.
- Cut or send the edges of the broken part, just to create a small empty area for the paste. - Use a brush to apply acetone where you will weld, in order to start solving the plastic and prepare it to fuse with the paste
- then insert some of your lego paste in this empty area with a wood tip, a match or any other small tool your are ready to sacrify. Try to smooth it as much as you can to optimize the aspect, to limit the sanding.
Let it dry at least 24 hours (can be more following the quantity of paste used and its dilution) to let the acetone fuse the piece together with the paste, then sand, finish with painting if necessary.
Your piece should have become as hard and solid than the original.

I repaired this way my roof case, wich was cracked and cut in various way. I even reconstructed a part of few centîeters that was missing.
I used the case a lot after that, filled it too much, pushed hard on it to close it... Never cracked again, and this was 4 years ago. So this works. But ONLY on ABS plastics.
If this can help...

[zessy]

Palsonite received today and just installed.
with hop up at the maximum, I shoot between 25 and 30 meters before the bbs falls. Is this a good value???

One problem: the action of the hop up regulation isn't so visible, I am in the impression that the rub is so hard that it pushes up the metal plate of regulation and isn't compressed as it should. in fact, looking inside the barrel, the change is minimum when going from zero to max, and the metal plate seems really elastic. Is this possible? Any solution for this?

I have just ordered the shooters design hammer spring to replace the original TM. Will this enhance again distance or precision, in delivering more gaz? By chance, I have a colleague in Hong Kong who will send it to me as a letter, so no custom fees and dossier (more expensive than the springs, I ordered 2 just in case...)

Thanks!!!

[e-luder]

Originally Posted by zessy

Palsonite received today and just installed.
with hop up at the maximum, I shoot between 25 and 30 meters before the bbs falls. Is this a good value???

Yeah that's pretty damn acceptable.

One problem: the action of the hop up regulation isn't so visible, I am in the impression that the rub is so hard that it pushes up the metal plate of regulation and isn't compressed as it should. in fact, looking inside the barrel, the change is minimum when going from zero to max, and the metal plate seems really elastic. Is this possible? Any solution for this?

Yes this is normal.

The hop up arm needs to have give a little give for the BB to successfully enter the hop up unit.

But what happens over time is that the tension of that hop up arm will loosen. Thus creating the symptoms you are describing.

The solution is buy a steel hop up arm or modify the arm yourself.
The steel hop up arm is quite beneficial and have proven to be the most effective in my opinion.

I have just ordered the shooters design hammer spring to replace the original TM. Will this enhance again distance or precision, in delivering more gaz? By chance, I have a colleague in Hong Kong who will send it to me as a letter, so no custom fees and dossier (more expensive than the springs, I ordered 2 just in case...)

Thanks!!!

No.

The hammer spring only regulates how much gas is expelled.
Meaning, you'll get more consistant FPS outputs regardless of magazine temperatures in comparison to the stock Marui spring.

It will not affect distance or accuracy.

[zessy]

Thank you e-luder for your answers.
The problem comes from the fact that I damaged it a bit during reassembly because I didn't pay attention to te wheel good position and the arm went beside and bent. So I had to twist it back to get its correct shape, but I guess it didn't like the operation at all. Sometimes I have 2 left hands, with only thumbs on them...

Any idea of who's building /selling these steel arms? This was in fact my first idea, but I didn't found any... I tried with my friend google and visited some forums, but there seems to be no subject for alternative models, or even for modification on the original one.

Would this be helful to heat it and then cool it down in water, or will this be worst?
Any other operation that can be done without damaging it more than it is or making it weaker than it became?

[loafing_smurf]

Has anyone tried putting a WE G17 on a Guarder G17 frame?