FAQ for Tokyo Marui Hi-Capa, 2011, 1911, MEU & Detonics type variants

[juicy]

Hm, okay, interesting. Well, if there's a loading nozzle out there that's not crap-metal for the Marui Glock 17, I'm all ears, lol. Provided I don't decimate my hop up unit, that is - but that contact point is different that the one that was recently posted about... so....

Yeah, I lost track of where I was going with that. I'd love to see where you could get one of these as well, m61a1.

[m61a1]

I don't see the need to upgrade to a heavier and harder aluminum nozzle that can potentially increase wear to surrounding components unnecessarily. To me, it seems like suffering too many downsides for an over-engineered product.

Unless you're pushing CO2, I really don't see the need for it.
aluminum.

hmm so there is many downside for this "metal" loading nozzle
most of GBB crowd in Indonesia are so FPS minded so CO2 are widely used here

They do? I didn't get one with my MEU.

same here, the ARMY only gave the box, gbb and its magazine, even no manual.

m61a1, could you send me a link to this part? Do you have any additional information on the part?

unfortunately the metal nozzle was already sold and no one in my GBB AA-IPSC crowd were ever use it, most of them were using AS one that come with piston head. from what i remember that it has no brand at all, like loose pack (some airsoft and its part that imported to my country were loose pack, no packaging or even box and manual).

i believe this is the nozzle that was sold

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/upgrade-p...-1911-gbb.html

[intinerious]

When a metal loading nozzle breaks, its due to the material being too rigid and allows a 'wave of stress' to move across the material every time the gun is fired, right? What I'm trying to get at is resonance. Of course, I doubt that the metal loading nozzles will break DUE to resonance but the repeated cycle of the stress waves travelling through the (pot) metal nozzle will surely lead to a faster failure point than a plastic / POM one?

Some post all the way back in this thread about the Shooter's Design nozzle had a speculation that because the POM material bends; it is more durable. Hence, I would conclude that given the material can easily deform (comparing with metal and the stock plastic nozzle) the wave of stress can't develop as much as the metal nozzles since the shape of the nozzle (in microscopic scale) changes to prevent the wave from travelling too far within the material itself as well as the energy imparted on the nozzle will be redistributed to change the shape of the nozzle, thus reducing the overall stress developing throughout the structure.

I don't remember the key terms and theories from physics no more (studying civil engineering...it really is applied science..in the sense that you only apply it. I hate HK education) but I think I got the gist of it correct. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me

[ILLusion]

I think it's more a case of pot metal just being very fragile and having very little tensile strength compared to higher end polymers out there... aircraft grade aluminum, on the other hand, is extremely rigid, but has a very high tensile breaking point compared to pot metal or even plastics. It is also more expensive to work with due to the hardness of it, as it has to be machined, rather than a single shot injection in to a die cast mould.

However, due to the very thing walls required to fit such a nozzle in to GBB, I can't see very many metals at all that can retain the strength and rigidity required for this application. Plastics would be a better option, whether it be glass filled nylon or Delrin. You are right about the flexion of Delrin. It's one of the selling qualities of the material, along with natural self-lubricating characteristics.

This case appeals more to basic metallurgy and materials science, with a hint of applied sciences.

[intinerious]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

I think it's more a case of pot metal just being very fragile and having very little tensile strength compared to higher end polymers out there... aircraft grade aluminum, on the other hand, is extremely rigid, but has a very high tensile breaking point compared to pot metal or even plastics. It is also more expensive to work with due to the hardness of it, as it has to be machined, rather than a single shot injection in to a die cast mould.

However, due to the very thing walls required to fit such a nozzle in to GBB, I can't see very many metals at all that can retain the strength and rigidity required for this application. Plastics would be a better option, whether it be glass filled nylon or Delrin. You are right about the flexion of Delrin. It's one of the selling qualities of the material, along with natural self-lubricating characteristics.

This case appeals more to basic metallurgy and materials science, with a hint of applied sciences.

Ahh I see!

Thanks for the info!

[Tsotsi]

Hey guys! I now have my TM 1911 with the Nova MEU kit. It is exactly like this.

Can I use TM 1911 magazines or should I use TM Meu magazines?

[intinerious]

Originally Posted by Tsotsi

Hey guys! I now have my TM 1911 with the Nova MEU kit. It is exactly like this.

Can I use TM 1911 magazines or should I use TM Meu magazines?

The TM 1911 mag should work since the dimensions of the lower frame would be the same (MEU and standard 1911) where the mag sits.

I'll prefer to use the MEU mag though; the addition of the plastic bumper would absorb some shock if you accidentally or intentionally) drop the mag as opposed to the 1911 mag with the metal plate base. If you drop the 1911 mag and the bottom plate gets bent; you might not be able to push the mag competely into the lower frame without bending the plate back to its original shape.

[juicy]

Originally Posted by intinerious

The TM 1911 mag should work since the dimensions of the lower frame would be the same (MEU and standard 1911) where the mag sits.

I'll prefer to use the MEU mag though; the addition of the plastic bumper would absorb some shock if you accidentally or intentionally) drop the mag as opposed to the 1911 mag with the metal plate base. If you drop the 1911 mag and the bottom plate gets bent; you might not be able to push the mag competely into the lower frame without bending the plate back to its original shape.

In terms of gas/BB capacity, though, they are exactly the same. On the flip side, 1911 mags have a lower profile, if you're into that.

I use MEU mags because I've currently got a magwell on my 1911. The plastic bumper is something I'm actually concerned I might break eventually - that being said, there are aftermarket bumpers out there for a few bucks that have markings on them. They fit the 1911 mags too, so if you get/have got a few 1911 mags and want the MEU mags with bumpers, you could always just buy the bumpers too.

[intinerious]

Originally Posted by juicy

In terms of gas/BB capacity, though, they are exactly the same. On the flip side, 1911 mags have a lower profile, if you're into that.

I use MEU mags because I've currently got a magwell on my 1911. The plastic bumper is something I'm actually concerned I might break eventually - that being said, there are aftermarket bumpers out there for a few bucks that have markings on them. They fit the 1911 mags too, so if you get/have got a few 1911 mags and want the MEU mags with bumpers, you could always just buy the bumpers too.

I've read the the MEU mag should theoretically have a higher gas capacity due to the different metal used for the gas chamber....or something about the durability of the metal for MEU is better than the 1911 so TM designed the MEU mag with a slightly larger gas capacity.

I've got 2 slightly broken plastic bumpers for my mags already. They generally break where the pins hold the bumper to the metal mag base thats covered by the bumper itself. The circular cut out on the plastic bumper for the pins will split towards one of the sides of the bumper. The bumper still holds onto the mag though.

DYTAC makes the bumper replacement with the Wilson Combat markings on it (in tan and black). Does anyone know if the DYTAC mag bases are more durable so that drop mag changes would be okay (on carpet or earth, not concrete)?

Also, I don't think the DYTAC bumpers fit the 1911 mags, the base is designed differently. There IS a company that makes bumpers for 1911 mags in Japan but I don't have the link with me and it's not one of the 'major' brands out there in the aftermarkets....market

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by juicy

In terms of gas/BB capacity, though, they are exactly the same. On the flip side, 1911 mags have a lower profile, if you're into that.

Incorrect on both points.

Gas:
I've measured the internal dimensions of both mags, and surprisingly, the 1911 magazines have a LARGER internal area, which would indicate a greater gas capacity. While the width and length of the two magazine types are roughly the same, the depth of the magazine is longer for the 26 round 1911 magazine. Secondly, the base plate of the 1911 magazine sits lower, due to the lack of need of pins to hold in a bumper as in the MEU magazine. The entire bottom plate of the 1911 magazine is one integrated unit, whereas the MEU magazine is two pieces. The end result, is greater space to hold gas.

BB Capacity:
The lower profile 1911 mags hold 26 rounds. The MEU mags with the extended base holds 28 rounds.
The spring guide at the bottom of the standard 1911 magazine base is higher, thus, taking up the room for those two extra rounds.

Originally Posted by juicy

...there are aftermarket bumpers out there for a few bucks that have markings on them. They fit the 1911 mags too, so if you get/have got a few 1911 mags and want the MEU mags with bumpers, you could always just buy the bumpers too.

Also incorrect. The bases of the MEU and 1911 are NOT the same, and are quite different. You can NOT mount the Dytac Wilson Combat MEU mag bases to the 1911 mags. As Itinerious mentioned, there is an aftermarket brand out there that specifically makes the Wilson Combat extended mag base pads for the 1911 mags, but it's been a while since I've seen them. I once saw them in a shop in HK, and also in an airsoft magazine somewhere, but I can't remember what the brand name was, or the source for them.

Originally Posted by intinerious

DYTAC makes the bumper replacement with the Wilson Combat markings on it (in tan and black). Does anyone know if the DYTAC mag bases are more durable so that drop mag changes would be okay (on carpet or earth, not concrete)?

I have them, and found the material to be a bit more brittle than the TM part. I haven't used my mags since I installed the Dytac base, so I can't really comment on them yet. I just found that the polymer used seemed to be stiffer. It *may* crack easier under shock, but at the same time, it may be tougher. Hard to say till I've used them.

Originally Posted by intinerious

I've read the the MEU mag should theoretically have a higher gas capacity due to the different metal used for the gas chamber....or something about the durability of the metal for MEU is better than the 1911 so TM designed the MEU mag with a slightly larger gas capacity.

Theory and real life don't match, in this case. See my response to juicy at the top of this post.

[intinerious]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

Gas:
I've measured the internal dimensions of both mags, and surprisingly, the 1911 magazines have a LARGER internal area, which would indicate a greater gas capacity. While the width and length of the two magazine types are roughly the same, the depth of the magazine is longer for the 26 round 1911 magazine. Secondly, the base plate of the 1911 magazine sits lower, due to the lack of need of pins to hold in a bumper as in the MEU magazine. The entire bottom plate of the 1911 magazine is one integrated unit, whereas the MEU magazine is two pieces. The end result, is greater space to hold gas.

I have them, and found the material to be a bit more brittle than the TM part. I haven't used my mags since I installed the Dytac base, so I can't really comment on them yet. I just found that the polymer used seemed to be stiffer. It *may* crack easier under shock, but at the same time, it may be tougher. Hard to say till I've used them.

Theory and real life don't match, in this case. See my response to juicy at the top of this post.

Ah, thanks for the correction about the gas capacity

My friend with all his MEU mag gas routers worn out is planning to overhaul his mags (same guy I got my extra mags from...with the worn rubber routers). I've helped him check his bumpers and they're all broken as well, so hes planning on getting the DYTAC ones. If he does and fields them; I'll report back whether the DYTAC bumpers can take the abuse.

btw, are the weighted grips on the MEU (and tm 1911) thicker than real steel grips? Being in HK I don't get the chance of holding a real steel 1911 so I don't know the real dimensions of the grips. One of the reasons why I bought the MEU was for a thinner grip than other pistols but to my surprise the 'single stack design' of the MEU has the same grip width as my KSC Glock. If the grips are indeed thicker, what grip panel would you recommend to get the thinnest grip possible? In terms of looks I'm thinking of getting the Ready Fighter Operators Pistol Grip With Slex Screws For Marui M1911A1 Colt Goverment (Tan) or the DYTAC MARSOC Grip For Marui M1911A1 Colt Government (Desert Tan) (but only DENTrinity seem to have it and its out) but I don't know whether those grips are thinner either.

I'll really like to go to the shops to check them out myself but exams are coming up (I should be revising right now) and I really like to get this question out of my head ASAP

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by intinerious

btw, are the weighted grips on the MEU (and tm 1911) thicker than real steel grips?

Quite the opposite, actually. I have real steel Gunner Grips here, and side to side, they are actually THICKER than the MEU grips by a little bit.

However, one thing that makes the MEU / Pachmayr grips feel thicker than most 1911 grips is the front strap. Try removing it and see how that feels to you.
The MEU grips are replicas of real steel Pachmayr rubber grips.

[intinerious]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

Quite the opposite, actually. I have real steel Gunner Grips here, and side to side, they are actually THICKER than the MEU grips by a little bit.

However, one thing that makes the MEU / Pachmayr grips feel thicker than most 1911 grips is the front strap. Try removing it and see how that feels to you.
The MEU grips are replicas of real steel Pachmayr rubber grips.

Hey thanks for the reply :P

Hmm I've been told that 1911's generally have a slimmer grip, being single stack and all. Then I compare with with my double-stacked glock and the sizes are the same...

Anyway, I guess I can't complain about realism if real steel grips are thicker than the MEU ones. Still; I'll like to reduce my grip size on the MEU. I've removed the front strap and it does feel slimmer (I feel like I can handle the gun better) but I still want to reduce the 'width' of the grip.

I really like the looks of the gunner grips that you have (its the tan ones that you placed on your...kimber? right? there was a pic somewhere near the start of this thread). The proud MARSOC ones and Readyfighter ones I linked eariler and look good too in my option. Do you have any experience with those grips and can comment on their thickness? Or would you recommend another airsoft replica grip thats also pretty thin?

Thanks again for all your help!

[juicy]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm... I stand corrected. Actually, I vaguely remember you saying something about 1911 > MEU mags in terms of gas capacity before.

I should probably speak on topics I've tested myself, lols.

I'm surprised the Dytac bases don't fit 1911 mags? I was going to convert a bunch of them on my next order, but now I guess I won't be.

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by intinerious

Hmm I've been told that 1911's generally have a slimmer grip, being single stack and all. Then I compare with with my double-stacked glock and the sizes are the same...

Yes, measure just the width of the grip from one side of the panel to the other, a single stack 1911 may be thicker or the same as a double stacked 1911 (2011), or a Glock. But if you measure the circumference, you'll find that 1911's are generally smaller in that dimension, and is what people refer to more as a smaller grip.

If you want to reduce width further, bust out a piece of sandpaper or a file, and put some elbow grease in to it!

Originally Posted by intinerious

I really like the looks of the gunner grips that you have (its the tan ones that you placed on your...kimber? right? there was a pic somewhere near the start of this thread). The proud MARSOC ones and Readyfighter ones I linked eariler and look good too in my option. Do you have any experience with those grips and can comment on their thickness? Or would you recommend another airsoft replica grip thats also pretty thin?

Yes, it's the Gunner Grips on my Warrior that I measured.
I have no experience with the other panels you linked to.

Originally Posted by juicy

...I vaguely remember you saying something about 1911 > MEU mags in terms of gas capacity before.

Don't think I've ever mentioned that before. In fact, I've always thought the MEU mags had a larger internal capacity, and thus, held more gas. I just never said anything because it was never confirmed. I just proved my supposition was incorrect, by doing the measurements yesterday.