Systema PTW vs. Modded high-end sniper rifles

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by Fox62

This Mcguyver fella, I don't doubt he's worked with AEGs, PTWs and whatever, but if I'm not wrong he's the same guy that said he needs to bring 4 AEGs to a game to make sure he can reliably play; and that right there shows how exaggerated his views are. I'm betting it's the same with distance, since there's not a single youtube video showing the incredible range of these guns.

I'm mostly a fairweather player, but I have played a little teeny bit in colder weather. And AEGs do break, all the time. Gears strip, pistons strip, lubricants freeze, batteries die, hop-ups freeze solid.

I could guarantee a gun go down for something. Then, I needed a back-up. Then, incase we do CQB, my 475 fps G&P SPR would have to be sidelined for an MP5K.

I demand performance and push guns to limits. They break. PTWs almost never break mechanically.

BTW, my range testing was done on a paintball field with pilings every 20 feet on center. I have $70K+++ in tools, I can measure any distance required. So, yes, I have no frame of reference and I am obviously exaggerating.

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by Steven

Apparently they come in different capacities... I could have sworn they were all 30.

Mil/LE are 30. Gen 1 was 80 and Gen 3+ are 120.

Those are just the Systema-brand. Others have capacity up to 170 but are unreliable.

[z0ng]

I think you've convinced me to look at getting a PTW next year mcguyver. Thanks!

[damage]

PTW. Your skill level goes up.

[wurger]

The PTW wins. Until the motor burns out from shooting semi. Then you wait for a new motor while the BA guy still gets to play.

[SuperHog]

I think it would be fun and at the same time end the debate.

Space out a PTW owner and a sniper, 250 feet
from each other and let them duel it out!

[krap101]

Originally Posted by SuperHog

I think it would be fun and at the same time end the debate.

Space out a PTW owner and a sniper, 250 feet
from each other and let them duel it out!

This seems a bit lopsided... Why not let the sniper go out, ghillie up, and later send the ptw after him... that's how it would happen anyways...

Originally Posted by wurger

The PTW wins. Until the motor burns out from shooting semi. Then you wait for a new motor while the BA guy still gets to play.

The ptw wins where? When? How? You're saying the ptw will win in every case? No matter what? My point is that you made a huge generalization on something that would change based on the situation. Sort of the same thing as saying the F-35 is better than the A-10 in EVERYTHING...

[SuperHog]

Nope Krap101, I am not off topic.

Take at a look at Fox62 opening post. It is about the effective range of a PTW up against a sniper rifle,not the player.

So the suggestion of the gun challenge.

[ThunderCactus]

Originally Posted by Fox62

That's what I don't get, why would anyone prefer a sniper rifle that takes insane amount of work and probably the same kind of money over a fully automatic rifle that can shoot the same distance?

same distance, BA has significantly tighter grouping, and every shot is always the same, and you have the option of putting in an air brake and making it DEAD quiet. Honest to god, when I first built my VSR people couldn't hear it from 15 feet away.

Cost?
Fully upgraded brand new G&P AEG with no externals, no batteries, no extra mags, around $1100
Fully upgraded brand new TM VSR-10 with 6 mags, and 2 bags of ammo, $1100

Maintenance?
AEG's
hopup rubbers wear out
need to clean barrel regularly
pistons can strip
gundocs can reassemble incorrectly and break more parts
O-rings can dry out over off-season
Batteries can over-discharge over off-season, or short out during use
Battery chargers can fail
May need to do spring swaps to play indoors
Other parts can break or wear out; mag catch, trigger, charging handle

Bolt action
I grease my VSR-10 once before every season
I clean the barrel after every game
.........that's about it


As for installation of parts?
Upgrading a bolt action rifle is just about the simplest thing you can do as a gundoc. It's as easy as rebuilding a PTW cylinder. There's no gears, no timing, no COMPTER, no battery, and there's only about 5 moving parts in the whole gun.

Bolt actions are simpler, better, more reliable and more accurate than AEG's, they work in -10 to +50, they make very little noise, and it's just more impressive to take out a squad of people with a sniper rifle than an AEG. The whole point is that you both have the same range, but you can take them out with the disadvantage of having to load each shot manually.

It's all personal preference, but bolt actions are without a doubt way easier to maintain than AEGs

[krap101]

Originally Posted by SuperHog

Nope Krap101, I am not off topic.

Take at a look at Fox62 opening post. It is about the effective range of a PTW up against a sniper rifle,not the player.

So the suggestion of the gun challenge.

For it to be an even match, are we talking a single shot?

[Fox62]

Originally Posted by krap101

For it to be an even match, are we talking a single shot?

Well, that's the whole point, a PTW can shoot full auto. As I said earlier, probably most basic upgraded AEGs are superior to a sniper/DMR given their ROF; I just don't buy it that PTWs can get nice groupings at 270 ft. just like that. That's a sniper range for groupings.
Until I don't see it I can't say yes, or no for that matter, but it just seems highly unlikely to me. One shot at 270 ft. is possible, I just don't see a PTW grouping consistently at that range.

[SuperHog]

Originally Posted by krap101

For it to be an even match, are we talking a single shot?

Noop. both in their natural form. If the sniper is so accurate, then a second shot should not be needed.

[theshaneler]

we arnt talking about tactics, we are talking about gun performance, not knowing where you are or where i am, is situational.


But your missing my point; in a comparison of AEG and sniper rifle. the AEG will be more effective in hitting a target. put a paper target at 300m and see who gets a hit first, it will be AEG most of the time.

As far as I'm concerned the only advantage to a sniper rifle is the sound

and as an LMG yes i spray, that's kind of my job, support fire.

Originally Posted by krap101

You're making a few very big assumptions here.
#1 You know where I am
#2 I don't know where you are, or at least we are on a level playing field
#3 Since you're using your lmg or whatever, you can be heard just about anywhere on the field, whereas you'll only be able to zero in on a hidden sniper if you're very close,

Compensating for lack of accuracy with rof is a very sad way to view airsoft. Yes the ptw can have the same accuracy as a bolt action, to a point, but there is virtually no stealth with an aeg, unless you insulate the gearbox, and at that point you'll have overheating issues.

This is not Call of Duty, and unless you're "rushing" with a bolt action sniper rifle, you should never find yourself in a position where ROF gets you a win against a sniper, who by the way most likely has a spotter and fireteam support.

Have fun spraying at nothing, hoping to get a kill

[ThunderCactus]

It's arguable.
Most guys wouldn't even try to take a shot at 150 feet with a steady 28km/h crosswind, but I made it in 2/5 shots.
But then, at 200 feet of open ground on a sask hillside, it takes me about 30 rounds from my 249 to get a kill assuming I'm aimed on target. But it could be nearly impossible with a bolt action due to randomly and quickly changing wind conditions.

You really have to pick your shots with a bolt action, but the AEG is definitely the more general purpose of everything, just like it is with real steel.

But like I keep saying, for some reason I don't think anyone is listening.
YOU CAN'T COMPARE AN AEG TO A SNIPER RIFLE
They're two totally different categories. I have an LMG, an AEG, and a sniper rifle. I use all three throughout a season and I'm great with all of them. I know the advantages and disadvantages to all 3, and I pick which one I want to use based on what I want to do that weekend.
The LMG is good for cutting through underbrush, suppressing, and generally spending a lot on ammo, but it's also heavy so it's hard to react quickly or move and shoot.
The AEG is good for moving around, good for accuracy, good for ammo, good for versatility.
The sniper rifle is excellent for range and accuracy, uses very little ammo, but it won't save you when shit hits the fan.

If you don't like the disadvantages, then don't use that platform! lol

[Ricochet]

You are talking about two totally different platforms. Usually you'll find that games have different FPS limits for snipers to accommodate the heavier round needed to safely fire a BB at a longer distance. The balancing act between BB weight, bore, barrel length, FPS, airseal, ...ect. Will all depend on the gun your using and how it's been modified. It becomes a balancing act. Power alone does not solve your distance/accuracy issues. So a well tuned sniper rifle is a rare thing indeed. But when you see one in action it'll answer a lot of those questions. A PTW on the other hand that shoots the same FPS as a sniper rifle, will negate the usefulness of the bolt action. The sniper rifle may have a very slight distance/accuracy advantage. However it will be minimal, and won't make up for the versatility of the PTW. I.E. Rate of fire, mobility, snap shooting .....ect.

PTW's really shine in their engineering. They are simply the most reliable well balanced Airsoft rifle you can get. They require no modification to be amazing out of the box. You can get the hop up mod, which I suggest. Not that it's needed. But it is better than stock. And the motor mod. The design of the PTW motor is phenomenal, but the manufacturing is hurting sometimes. Simple put the mod and re-spooling of the motor will fix that issue. I've had stock motors run for years, and ones that just ran a year or two. A PTW with a gold cylinder (400 - 420 FPS) will make an accurate shot at about 250 feet on average. Barrel length between CQB and M16 plays a small part in grouping on the PTW, but not much on distance. A properly tuned sniper rifle, let's say a TM VSR; can make a shot at over 300 feet. That's shooting at 470 - 500 FPS using a heavier round. though it is extremely rare to see one done right.

As a guy that has run AEG, GBB, GBBR, PTW, and bolt action springers. I have to say that the comparison here is fairly pointless. Springer will always have a basic design superiority for snipers. At least right now. As well as GBBR snipers seem to be excellent. Minus the breaking down more quickly. A PTW is an assault platform that is very accurate. So it depends on your style. But if snipers don't have an increased power rating at the milsim you attend, go PTW.