Propane vs Green Gas

[L473ncy]

Hmm.... I wonder if you can refill the green Coleman tanks from one of those 20lb tanks then can you add "girl fart" as an additive for that "nice" smell (ie. reduce/eliminate the not so nice propane smell)?

I actually go through a few of those green Coleman tanks in a year. What can I say, I love camping and using that Coleman BBQ/stove thing.

EDIT: @ Shelledpants, I actually know that they add a bitterant to propane (something I learnt in like Chem 10 or Chem 11 IIRC) so that people know if there's a leak and so people don't abuse propane and inhale it (why they also add bitterants to Duster these days as well) but seriously I would like the gas we use in our GBB's to have a nicer smell. I have no problem using regular "smelly" propane out camping because it's probably a safety mechanism but with a GBB it's pretty hard to set yourself on fire unless you hold a cig up to the ejection port of your GBB or something and even then the gas gets cut off when the slide gets racked back forward so it's not like you'll set yourself on fire.

[Drake]

As I recall, the additive used to add smell to otherwise odorless propane can react with steel and/or rust, which fades or neutralizes the odor.

Maybe MadMax could design a refillable bottle (kinda like they had which looked like a flashbang etc, except without looking like a flashbang) with a changeable filter that could neutralize the smell.

Incentive for MadMax: replacement filters are a source of perpetual income!

[The Chad]

Ineresting how people can find these forums and have enough computer skills to post, but never think to run a google search.

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by L473ncy

I actually go through a few of those green Coleman tanks in a year. What can I say, I love camping and using that Coleman BBQ/stove thing.

Lol, since starting airsoft about 2-3 years ago, I've gone through 12-15 Coleman tanks.
Maybe more, I lost count.

[Eeyore]

Originally Posted by Drake

Maybe MadMax could design a refillable bottle (kinda like they had which looked like a flashbang etc, except without looking like a flashbang) with a changeable filter that could neutralize the smell.

Incentive for MadMax: replacement filters are a source of perpetual income!

Would it not be very irresponable and pobsibly open way for a lawsuit to make a product that removes a safety feature from a flamable gas?

Just my 2 cents.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by notom

Would it not be very irresponable and pobsibly open way for a lawsuit to make a product that removes a safety feature from a flamable gas?

Just my 2 cents.

Well for one we're not using it for camping or anything. And technically we're really not using the propane for its intended purpose.

Technically you aren't supposed to "dump" propane into the atmosphere either.

Plus smell or not we know we're doing it. Nobody will put a match to their GBB just because there's no smell. And other otherless gases, such as duster gases are flammable (difluoroethane and trifluoroethane; tetrafluoethane is not flammable which is why it's approved for use in places where there's a flash hazard, such as electronics like camera flashes)

[Deaf_shooter]

what about CO2?

[coach]

Originally Posted by Deaf_shooter

what about CO2?

what about it?

[Soulfly]

CO2 has a WAY higher pressure than propane... CO2 is usually around 600-900psi, when propane is around 130-170psi.

I don't think your valves would appreciate the extra pressure if you were able to make a 'CO2 Adapter'.

[The Chad]

no you need Co2 ready guns......out of the box we or something would blow up :P

[m102404]

Think for a sec of what happens in a GBB pistol and what the effect of that pressure would be.

Now I'm going to write another thread-killing essay...

1. The mag body/valves have to hold that higher pressure. I doubt the dinky little brass valves are going to hold really high pressure...you'll need to upgrade your fill and knocker valves to stainless steel.

2. The loading nozzle (thin cylinder/tube of plastic that acts as the cylinder for the piston blow back) has to contain the pressure of the gas for the pistol to operate. Operate not just once or twice...but hundreds of times, in rapid sucession. Nozzles (especially stock) crack often enough with propane...better upgrade that to the best ones you can, then buy spares and cross your fingers.

A lot of pistols are designed to run on duster or green gas. Most are just not designed with enoug space to replace parts with really beefy stuff.

3. The float valves inside the nozzles are not designed to hold in that much pressure. It doesn't happen often, but I've cracked a stainless one with propane. Buy the best you can, buy a couple of extras. And you'll need different float valve springs to balance the heavier valve and gas pressure.

4. The main knocker valve needs to hold the gas in...but the hammer spring, knocker and hammer needs to knock it open. So upgrade those parts. The hammer and mainspring rarely "break"...but knockers do. Steel ones should hold up.

5. Now here's the kicker (litterally)...you'll need to buffer the rearward force of the slide with enough power so that the slide doesn't smash the frame and itself to bits (i.e. blow right off the frame). So your frame has to be made of good material and so does your slide. Hard springs and buffers will work...you'll need to balance it. But NOTHING stops the forward movement of the slide except for the lockup points of the barrel assembly/frame...so while there's a good bit of force controlling the rearward force...that same power is going to snap the slide back forward just as hard.

6. With gas pistols, often the limiting factor is the barrel length. I've gotten 370fps w/0.20's out of a near stock hicapa on propane...but that was with a ridiculously long inner barrel. The way that the gas system works, short inner barrels do not lend themselves to high FPS with reliably working pressures. For further details on how a gas pistol works see Redwolf's pictoral write up, it's a good read.

And...that's just scratching the surface of tuning a GBB pistol.

All that's great fun...until things break. It might work one shot...or dozens. If you want to check out some wild stuff, see what the HK Airsoft IPSC guys are doing. Some of them are running HPA rigs fed into their HiCapas...don't know what pressures though. Not at all practical IMHO, but it's neat to see the limits pushed.

PS. AI adapters are great. I currently use a Madbull steel one and it works well. If I break it (most likely from dropping it), I'll try something else.

[coach]

Originally Posted by Deaf_shooter

what about CO2?

Originally Posted by Soulfly

CO2 has a WAY higher pressure than propane... CO2 is usually around 600-900psi, when propane is around 130-170psi.

I don't think your valves would appreciate the extra pressure if you were able to make a 'CO2 Adapter'.

there's something called a regulator and a psi gauge in which you can monitor/select how much psi you put into something.

if you are talking about the 12 gram cartridges, then you require a CO2 specific mag and pistol which is made to hold up to the higher pressure.

btw, there is a CO2 adapter that's been around for a while. you simply dial up the PSI you want and fill. the fill nozzle is also the same dimensions as the propane one.

before you get all excited about using CO2 in your pistol mags, DON'T DO IT!!! you will blow all the seals and valves!

just because the madbull CO2 charger can be dialed down to a safer PSI, doesn't mean you GUN is capable.

We use CO2 purely for 40mm showers.

HPA is the same. it's a cheaper, more consistent replacement for CO2 (in paintball) as it doesn't have the cool down effect. I have tested it in the Madbull CO2 grenades and it has done extremely well.

before you get all excited about using HPA in your pistol mags, DON'T DO IT!!! you will blow all the seals and valves. you won't get much capacity out of it because HPA takes up more space (volume) for the same output pressure.

[Chingyul]

Does the 20lb refill propane have less of the odorant than the Coleman?

That's the reason I still keep duster. Makes plinking more enjoyable indoors.

[Shooting Addict]

btw, there is a CO2 adapter that's been around for a while. you simply dial up the PSI you want and fill. the fill nozzle is also the same dimensions as the propane one.

Can you give me the link please if you don't mind?

[coach]

Originally Posted by Shooting Addict

Can you give me the link please if you don't mind?

lucky this is the tank...!!

http://www.airsoftparts.ca/store2/in...roducts_id=458

please don't go using CO2 in your non CO2 pistols! you've been warned.