New TM products, article from Arnies.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by Gryphon

Chinese AEGs are demonstrating themselves to be on-par with most HK and Japanese manufactured brands, with more upgrades out of the box, for half the cost. Why does this surprise you?

For the money I save buying a Chinese clone that's indistinguishable from a TM, I can replace anything that eventually breaks on it and still be ahead over buying a stock TM. Also TM is so sluggish with getting any new idea to market that by the time they have a working model of something, Chinese companies have them on store shelves.

The big name manufacturers' days are numbered and they know it. Just look at the prices at www.gunnerairsoft.com for proof (and he's MAKING money at those prices).

to me until they have proven to commit like some manufacturer in their QA department like Inokatsu I'm hesitant to plunk a nice chunk of change into their product, TM are slow in bringing new design into the market but their design are almost flawless due to the amount of R&D and the QA and by far TM stock product are better than any other manufacturer out there, how many times have we bought a CA , G&P or G&G and end up re shimming or retuning it. just to make it work nice. The price of china soft is very appealing and like you say gryphon for the price of a flawless clone you can replace any parts with parts made for TM. The big question is how many of those guns at gunner airsoft came back for warranty repair or replacement??

[MagnumPeanut]

Five-Seven

W00t!

[ProbeJax]

When I buy an airsoft gun, I expect it to work almost perfectly out of the box, not having to reshim or tighten screws or shave anything down. That kind of stuff should have been done by the manufacteur. I'm also not a fiend for ROF or FPS, so I don't really see any advantage to a Chinese AEG other then getting something that I won't plan on using extensively, say a casual support or semi auto sniper rifle.

[Ronald Chang]

Originally Posted by wildcard

to me until they have proven to commit like some manufacturer in their QA department like Inokatsu I'm hesitant to plunk a nice chunk of change into their product, TM are slow in bringing new design into the market but their design are almost flawless due to the amount of R&D and the QA and by far TM stock product are better than any other manufacturer out there, how many times have we bought a CA , G&P or G&G and end up re shimming or retuning it. just to make it work nice. The price of china soft is very appealing and like you say gryphon for the price of a flawless clone you can replace any parts with parts made for TM. The big question is how many of those guns at gunner airsoft came back for warranty repair or replacement??

Excellent comment about TM's products, Wildcard.

To me, TM=Tamiya, slow in bringing new products to the market and yet top notch QC for their products.

[ProbeJax]

TM and Tamiya really are the same company, aren't they?

[Ronald Chang]

Originally Posted by ProbeJax

TM and Tamiya really are the same company, aren't they?

TM=Tokyo Marui = the first airsoft manufacturer who invented the all electronic powered airsoft guns, which has been dominating the market up till now.

Tamiya = the very famous Japanese model company whose products are of high quality and easy to build.

Cheers.

[ProbeJax]

No, no. I meant the same company owns the both of them.

[Rumpel Felt]

Originally Posted by wildcard

to me until they have proven to commit like some manufacturer in their QA department like Inokatsu I'm hesitant to plunk a nice chunk of change into their product, TM are slow in bringing new design into the market but their design are almost flawless due to the amount of R&D and the QA and by far TM stock product are better than any other manufacturer out there, how many times have we bought a CA , G&P or G&G and end up re shimming or retuning it. just to make it work nice. The price of china soft is very appealing and like you say gryphon for the price of a flawless clone you can replace any parts with parts made for TM. The big question is how many of those guns at gunner airsoft came back for warranty repair or replacement??

What is with the TM fanboyism?? All they do is rape you for less like Gryphon said. They are way over rated; within themselves and compared to other manufacturers.

I just confidently bought my 5th or is it 6th CA gun and I'm a very have camper. I get a gun that is more powerful, comes with everything I need and nothing I don't need (cheasy literature I can't read, targets, fancy ass box), doesn't need to have every fucking piece on it upgraded to at least feel respectable and non-toyish....all for what it would cost me for a TM.

This "new" stuff is just lame. There's how many full WOOD and STEEL compact AK's out there now, that have all been proven quite reliable it seems and are generally just better in every way too. So now TM releases one that's almost certainly a hunk of plastic or cheasy pot metal (MAYBE, just maybe, aluminum if you're lucky), will shoot no more than 280fps and contain the minimal amount of parts to do that correctly. You'll have to buy a bunch of aftermarket externals and a load of internals that will likely put the cost over $1000....plus all the work, shipping costs and compatibility issues you'll get. Then you're left with a couple screws, levers, tubes and maybe a mechbox shell that you paid at least $500 for. Waste anyone?

This is the scenario with all TM guns. Which is why I never understood and still can't understand the TM fanboyism. And no they are NOT bullet proofly QC'ed either. There's plenty of cases of TM lemons out there. I'm willing to bet though that no one will go on an angry rant on the internet about it because they are thinking "well this must just be an extremely rare accident....after all, you can't go wrong with a TM"....

Well bullshit you can't go wrong! Buying one is the first step in the wrong direction most times! TM's are just wallet pimps. Since it's airsoft and we all know the urge to poor money into it....TM just makes the void to poor money into bigger with their minimal bang-for-buck mentality.

Only buy TM if someone else doesn't already make it better. Of course that takes some scouting and reasearch.

[The Saint]

I think that's enough TM bashing for this thread, please stop now.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by Rumpel Felt

What is with the TM fanboyism?? All they do is rape you for less like Gryphon said. They are way over rated; within themselves and compared to other manufacturers.

I just confidently bought my 5th or is it 6th CA gun and I'm a very have camper. I get a gun that is more powerful, comes with everything I need and nothing I don't need (cheasy literature I can't read, targets, fancy ass box), doesn't need to have every fucking piece on it upgraded to at least feel respectable and non-toyish....all for what it would cost me for a TM.

This "new" stuff is just lame. There's how many full WOOD and STEEL compact AK's out there now, that have all been proven quite reliable it seems and are generally just better in every way too. So now TM releases one that's almost certainly a hunk of plastic or cheasy pot metal (MAYBE, just maybe, aluminum if you're lucky), will shoot no more than 280fps and contain the minimal amount of parts to do that correctly. You'll have to buy a bunch of aftermarket externals and a load of internals that will likely put the cost over $1000....plus all the work, shipping costs and compatibility issues you'll get. Then you're left with a couple screws, levers, tubes and maybe a mechbox shell that you paid at least $500 for. Waste anyone?

This is the scenario with all TM guns. Which is why I never understood and still can't understand the TM fanboyism. And no they are NOT bullet proofly QC'ed either. There's plenty of cases of TM lemons out there. I'm willing to bet though that no one will go on an angry rant on the internet about it because they are thinking "well this must just be an extremely rare accident....after all, you can't go wrong with a TM"....

Well bullshit you can't go wrong! Buying one is the first step in the wrong direction most times! TM's are just wallet pimps. Since it's airsoft and we all know the urge to poor money into it....TM just makes the void to poor money into bigger with their minimal bang-for-buck mentality.

Only buy TM if someone else doesn't already make it better. Of course that takes some scouting and reasearch.

well it's not TM fanboyism, for your info the only TM AEG I got left is my HK51 the rest of my stuff are all Modified G&P and Inokatsu. i used to own a lot of TM. the base of my argument is even though TM product are a lot inferior in power and aesthetics ie metal body than the China soft guns they are still better built out of the box than majority of them.
I don't know how much experience you had with CA or G&P but from my own experience all of my CA and G&P need some sort of work to make them shoot at their full potential especially the earlier CA stuff, i remember for every 5 CA metal bodies back then We have to haul out the heavy grinders just to make them fit flawlessly compared to the more expensive PMS or Systema metal bodies. Gump for one have fix countless CA and G&P guns out of the box not shooting or jamming, TM out of the box is flawless and in my book the only reason JG or any other higher end China soft guns shoot flawlessly out of the box are because they are the exact replica of TM. Companies like CA and G&P are far better now on their R&D and their QA than the other brand but compared to company like TM or Systema they are still behind.

In my comment I agree with Gryphon comment on how he much prefer to get a flawless clone than buying a TM and replacing just the broken parts or inferior parts that's fine, but there are still more problem out of the box for a TM clone than a genuine TM product. My statement is not a case of TM fanboyism as you stated but merely a fact from personal experience, God knows there are no love lost between me and TM I have probably broke More TM product than Poncho, and with all the broken M4, MP5, and those freakin V2 boxes since 89 I'll probably have enough parts to build an AEG for every player in Ontario

[ProbeJax]

Originally Posted by Rumpel Felt

What is with the TM fanboyism?? All they do is rape you for less like Gryphon said. They are way over rated; within themselves and compared to other manufacturers.

I just confidently bought my 5th or is it 6th CA gun and I'm a very have camper. I get a gun that is more powerful, comes with everything I need and nothing I don't need (cheasy literature I can't read, targets, fancy ass box), doesn't need to have every fucking piece on it upgraded to at least feel respectable and non-toyish....all for what it would cost me for a TM.

This "new" stuff is just lame. There's how many full WOOD and STEEL compact AK's out there now, that have all been proven quite reliable it seems and are generally just better in every way too. So now TM releases one that's almost certainly a hunk of plastic or cheasy pot metal (MAYBE, just maybe, aluminum if you're lucky), will shoot no more than 280fps and contain the minimal amount of parts to do that correctly. You'll have to buy a bunch of aftermarket externals and a load of internals that will likely put the cost over $1000....plus all the work, shipping costs and compatibility issues you'll get. Then you're left with a couple screws, levers, tubes and maybe a mechbox shell that you paid at least $500 for. Waste anyone?

This is the scenario with all TM guns. Which is why I never understood and still can't understand the TM fanboyism. And no they are NOT bullet proofly QC'ed either. There's plenty of cases of TM lemons out there. I'm willing to bet though that no one will go on an angry rant on the internet about it because they are thinking "well this must just be an extremely rare accident....after all, you can't go wrong with a TM"....

Well bullshit you can't go wrong! Buying one is the first step in the wrong direction most times! TM's are just wallet pimps. Since it's airsoft and we all know the urge to poor money into it....TM just makes the void to poor money into bigger with their minimal bang-for-buck mentality.

Only buy TM if someone else doesn't already make it better. Of course that takes some scouting and reasearch.

Not everyone likes to change most of the parts in their gun.

[Ronald Chang]

Originally Posted by ProbeJax

No, no. I meant the same company owns the both of them.

So far as I know their owners are different. I may be wrong.

[Ronald Chang]

Originally Posted by ProbeJax

Not everyone likes to change most of the parts in their gun.

That's very true. Manufacturers have the responsibility to make their products work properly before they put it on the shelf. And the price of their products should not be an excuse for them not to take such responsibility.

I am 100% not a TM fan, but I just got too many lemons out of the box from other brands. Just spent some big money to ask a very good gun doctor to make a CA to shoot at a reasonable FPS. The CA gun simply has a very stupid range due to serious internal air leakage. And the gun is not cheap !

TM also have problems but at least, to me, they could be played right out of the box without too much tune up and maintainence, which is important as I am too busy at work and family to do the tune up by myself.

But with the emerging of some reliable brand names e.g. JG of China clones, I will certainly switch to them if their offers meet my requirements.

[MagnumPeanut]

I just wanna buy something that works out of the box.

I have had TM's and CA's. Both seem good to me. I'm pretty leary about China guns still. I'll have to take a step of faith and see some time tho.

[wildcard]

Just a FYI without TM R&D there are no china clones, and as much as we would like to contest the reliability or value of a Tokyo Marui VS other brands, Marui are the one that came up with the AEG for a mass market production, to my discontent they are also the one that end the era of the beloved GAS guns from JAC, KOKUSAI and others, as much as I hate TM I got to give them credit for marketing the most reliable AEG out of the box for us to bitch and complain about.