Lasers in airsoft for Dummies

[AlexGPS]

Yes thats true. As always safety is number 1 to me and to everyone i play with but for sure a reputable source is much better and 1000 dollar ir light source is better than a 30 dollar ir lazer in it.

[Cobrajr122]

Alex, this is already what thunder is doing. He is modifying a higher output laser and having it tested and documented properly to prove its safety, why are you still arguing, we have already accepted this.

Also - just cus ebay seller says its 0.5mw, does not mean it is. or, it could be 0.5mW at X wavelength, but not at others that it also transmits because its a cheap china laser that is not filtered/built very well. unless it can be tested and documented using the same standards from a reliable source - its a no go.

[ThunderCactus]

Originally Posted by c3sk

"Hey guys, I made this in my basement from some stuff I got on ebay, don't worry super safe, I saw some stuff on the internet about it"

You're still missing the part where it's tested in a actual lab, has tangible documentation, and is an approved class 1 laser.
To the point where you can call said lab and ask "hey did you guys test such and such laser and supply this document #xxxx with it?"
and they'll say "yeah, let me look that up....yep that's a class 1 laser alright"

Regardless of the location a product is built or modified, it has official and legally binding documents to back up it's function.

[Danke]

Half of this sounds great and half sounds like a wheel being reinvented.

Is the cost of the lab testing and certification and all the boxes being ticked really going to to cost that much less than an off the shelf retail option?

[Cobrajr122]

Originally Posted by Danke

Half of this sounds great and half sounds like a wheel being reinvented.

Is the cost of the lab testing and certification and all the boxes being ticked really going to to cost that much less than an off the shelf retail option?

Hopefully we will find out when thunder is done his project, I am excited to find out. If it is significantly cheaper I wont have to swap one laser between RS and airsoft :P

[ThunderCactus]

Originally Posted by Danke

Half of this sounds great and half sounds like a wheel being reinvented.

Is the cost of the lab testing and certification and all the boxes being ticked really going to to cost that much less than an off the shelf retail option?

You mean is getting an individual unit tested going to cost less than $1000?

[Danke]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

You mean is getting an individual unit testing going to cost less than $1000?

The piece of machinery to test them on is only part of this.

Now is when you get the game hosts to chime in offline to prevent purse fights and see what they expect so a unit can pass.

Are they going to be happy with a test run by a person they've never met and who built the unit? Or are they going to want a sheet of paper and a sticker from a third party lab?

[ShelledPants]

To preface: I'm all about science. Go do sciency things, and science the hell out of your life, maybe even pass on some science to friends. More science for everyone.

The issues about all this is very simple. Reputable sources. Gov't Contracts. Invested care for other's safety.

Trying to save a few bucks so you can be cool guy operator at night, at the expense of causing distrust among players at your game, and causing potential injury to others is not cool.

You can go do all the tests you want, and serialize, microchip and RFID tag your custom lasers out the ying-yang. If it didn't come from the USA and made by a reputable company with the US Governments grinning endorsement, I'm not letting anyone shine it in my direction with my knowledge.

If this means telling a player at my hosted game to remove it, or boycotting the game I'm attending by asking for a refund, or just simply stating my issue to game control and leaving. So be it.

A top tier IR Class one laser from LDI, the OTAL, can be bought and shipped to Canada for around 700USD landed at your door. How do I know this? I've done it. I then resold it a year later to one lucky fellow for about what I paid for it. Circle of life. Etc.

With that 700USD price tag, you gain a number of benefits, the primary being ability to use the laser on 99% of fields with an informed host, and not worrying in the slightest that you may injure your friends or yourself in anyway regarding it's use. If you are of low morals and care not for those around you in the slightest: Then at least you get a super cool IR laser which will probably outlast you and your first born.

[c3sk]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

You're still missing the part where it's tested in a actual lab, has tangible documentation, and is an approved class 1 laser.
To the point where you can call said lab and ask "hey did you guys test such and such laser and supply this document #xxxx with it?"
and they'll say "yeah, let me look that up....yep that's a class 1 laser alright"

Regardless of the location a product is built or modified, it has official and legally binding documents to back up it's function.

I think you're missing the point where that still doesnt override individual consent. I'm sorry, but the last person I would trust working with a laser diode being used on human beings is you, no offence... I just don't think you have the credentials or the infrastructure to produce such a product, while large companies like L3 and LDI have a proven record of industry product development.

However if you have the credentials specially in this field, and the company behind it ready to assume liability, I'll definitey look forward to seeing your product debut at the next Shot Show with all the other industry leaders.

[beta678]

Neat post, lots of good info.

That said, if anyone is running a laser at a game I'm playing, and its supposedly eye safe, then they better pony up and let me shine that laser into their eye first to prove it. Otherwise, get rid of it or I'll find a game admin to boot them. My eyes aren't worth risking for your "OMFG I'M SO FUCKING OPERATORZ WITH MY PEW PEW LAZERZZZZ!" moment, no offense.

[ShelledPants]

I'm not into shit posting people in particular, but I've got to take a moment here to point out that ThunderCactus, the very same guy some of you want to make a reliable eye safe IR laser for cheap, is also the guy who 2 years ago went around shooting 3mW IR lasers at people and "noone complained because they couldn't see it".

http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread....64#post1751664 <-- Click

The above thread is full of WTF and should open your eyes more than a little bit.

[AlexGPS]

Originally Posted by Cobrajr122

Alex, this is already what thunder is doing. He is modifying a higher output laser and having it tested and documented properly to prove its safety, why are you still arguing, we have already accepted this.

Also - just cus ebay seller says its 0.5mw, does not mean it is. or, it could be 0.5mW at X wavelength, but not at others that it also transmits because its a cheap china laser that is not filtered/built very well. unless it can be tested and documented using the same standards from a reliable source - its a no go.

Im not arguing anything. Im just having a conversation. Im not trying to enforce anything to anyone. Sorry if i came out wrong or my words seemed like i was arguing. Im truelly sorry.

[Ricochet]

I remember that time in airsoft history. No one but a few had IR lasers and emmiters, and no one was even aware that they were on the field. I know some game hosts that were aware because they were some of the ones that ran them. Not only that, but very focused and high lumen lights, sound or bang devices that go over the safe decibel level, or even just aiming lasers made God knows where by God knows who, and nobody batted an eye. Do you check decibel levels and lumens of other devices on your field? Do you have a way of checking them, or do you just outright ban flashlights? In the case of a laser, it must go directly into your eye for an amount of time in order to do damage. That's pretty hard to do unless you are trying at close, close, very close range. Now that we're more educated and realize that more and more people are flying China Air out on the airsoft field, people are making a safety effort. No one had a working chrono at the field today, but we didn't ban all airsoft guns. No one has shown up with a cutting laser yet, so it isn't the end of the world. People looking into reasonable alternatives isn't a bad thing because either they hit the mark, or it doesn't get used. If a proper lab provides full documentation and backing for a device, then that is that, if they don't they don't. If a host bans all laser devices no matter what then that is what they do, they may accept only high end models, they may except modified with paperwork, they may except modified without, they may except it from individuals they know, you may not agree with a hosts regulations and choose not to play at their event, and if anyone is hurt from unreasonable circumstances, then there's going to be hell to pay.

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by Ricochet

In the case of a laser, it must go directly into your eye for an amount of time in order to do damage. That's pretty hard to do unless you are trying at close, close, very close range.

Hold the fucking phone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_safety

Laser radiation predominantly causes injury thermal effects. Even moderately powered lasers can cause injury to the eye. High power lasers can also burn the skin. Some lasers are so powerful that even the diffuse reflection from a surface can be hazardous to the eye.

The coherence and low divergence angle of laser light, aided by focusing from the lens of an eye, can cause laser radiation to be concentrated into an extremely small spot on the retina. A transient increase of only 10 °C can destroy retinal photoreceptor cells. If the laser is sufficiently powerful, permanent damage can occur within a fraction of a second, literally faster than the blink of an eye. Sufficiently powerful lasers in the visible to near infrared range (400-1400 nm) will penetrate the eyeball and may cause heating of the retina, whereas exposure to laser radiation with wavelengths less than 400 nm and greater than 1400 nm are largely absorbed by the cornea and lens, leading to the development of cataracts or burn injuries.[1]

Infrared lasers are particularly hazardous, since the body's protective "blink reflex" response is triggered only by visible light. For example, some people exposed to high power Nd:YAG laser emitting invisible 1064 nm radiation may not feel pain or notice immediate damage to their eyesight. A pop or click noise emanating from the eyeball may be the only indication that retinal damage has occurred i.e. the retina was heated to over 100 °C resulting in localized explosive boiling accompanied by the immediate creation of a permanent blind spot.[2]

Take a moment to briefly familiarize yourself with the alphabetic scrawling above.

[c3sk]

Originally Posted by Ricochet

I remember that time in airsoft history. No one but a few had IR lasers and emmiters, and no one was even aware that they were on the field. I know some game hosts that were aware because they were some of the ones that ran them. Not only that, but very focused and high lumen lights, sound or bang devices that go over the safe decibel level, or even just aiming lasers made God knows where by God knows who, and nobody batted an eye. Do you check decibel levels and lumens of other devices on your field? Do you have a way of checking them, or do you just outright ban flashlights? In the case of a laser, it must go directly into your eye for an amount of time in order to do damage. That's pretty hard to do unless you are trying at close, close, very close range. Now that we're more educated and realize that more and more people are flying China Air out on the airsoft field, people are making a safety effort. No one had a working chrono at the field today, but we didn't ban all airsoft guns. No one has shown up with a cutting laser yet, so it isn't the end of the world. People looking into reasonable alternatives isn't a bad thing because either they hit the mark, or it doesn't get used. If a proper lab provides full documentation and backing for a device, then that is that, if they don't they don't. If a host bans all laser devices no matter what then that is what they do, they may accept only high end models, they may except modified with paperwork, they may except modified without, they may except it from individuals they know, you may not agree with a hosts regulations and choose not to play at their event, and if anyone is hurt from unreasonable circumstances, then there's going to be hell to pay.

Yea man, I dunno.



Anyways. Lasermax Products have been available on Amazon.ca for a bit. Seems they have started selling minimalist Class 1 IR Lasers on there for fairly cheap prices. Hopefully this trend will continue.

Here. (Note, Amazon has the description wrong for the item, users have posted the correct item information as per Lasermax's site)