Celcius CTW: Systema PTW clone

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Comanche

Yeah, really unexpected. I would have thought that such product, which is a clone of a (probably patented?) sytem wouldn't be sold in such a high-profile airsoft shop.

It's presumed to be a clone, but probably isn't (it would most likely be out by now if it was a straight clone). If certain parts are similar (function) but different (design) it ceases to be a clone.

[Conker]

Well, if it's not a direct clone it's quite near since at least its cylinders are compatible! Anyhow, I'm happy they're availble. I can't wait too see its reviews!

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Comanche

Well, if it's not a direct clone it's quite near since at least its cylinders are compatible! Anyhow, I'm happy they're availble. I can't wait too see its reviews!

The WE 1911 accepts several parts from Marui 1911s (sometimes requiring minor modifications/fitting), but anyone who's owned one will tell you it is in no way a clone.

I too am curious to see reviews.

[Eeyore]

Originally Posted by Ashton

I. We are in a recession... so bringing out a cheap, affordable clone of a quality AEG might entice buyers who would otherwise be cautious about spending their money.

Though that also sort of makes me willing to bet that this isn't going to be high quality. Not at first, at least.

At $610 with 2-3x Canadian markup its still in the range of $1200-1800. Hardly affordable in Canada.

[Conker]

Originally Posted by Drake

The WE 1911 accepts several parts from Marui 1911s (sometimes requiring minor modifications/fitting), but anyone who's owned one will tell you it is in no way a clone.

I too am curious to see reviews.

I didn't think about this, but sounds pretty logical. You've got the point

I've just read the topic on ASR and from what I understood, they based their design on Systema's, but enhanced it to their own standards and objectives. So yeah, they did a part of R&D on their own and it's not a direct clone. It's more of a derivative.

[Donster]

Originally Posted by notom66866

At $610 with 2-3x Canadian markup its still in the range of $1200-1800. Hardly affordable in Canada.

it is still affordable. you forget, that the retailers mark it up. i wouldn't be surprised if you can find them for $1000 or less. Even $1200 is noticeably cheaper than a PTW (isn't it? i thought they go fro around 2K or 2.2K)

[mcguyver]

OK, guys, here's the skinny of the CTW.

1) It uses electronics which appear to be based on the Gen 3-3.5 (2007) design. They are OK, but will not tolerate abuse due to low voltage, excessive inductive discharge from the motor (like a bad 490 for example) or long trigger pulls with a substandard battery.

2) They use what they call a "495" motor. Systema really started to have problems with their 2007 electronics when they went to the 490. Not necessarily because all the motors were bad, but the 490 generates more torque than the 480, and thus draws more current to do so. The 2007 electronics were run nearly to the limit, especially when using the M150/12V or the M130/9.6V. Adding more current demand had a tendancy to kill the EL-003 (switch board). I know. I have a box full of dead ones, and I pitched the smoked ones out. This is the reason they went to the Gen 4 (2008), to detect a bad motor (excessive spike or draw) as well as low-voltage cut-off and increased FET and board capacity.

3) The finish is so-so, and guys who have gotten them have said the paint comes off easy, and is an odd colour. The receiver is supposed to be CNCd, but CNCd from what. Celcius uses the term "CNC processed". I have no idea what that means exactly.

4) Currently, a MAX kit sells for about $895 US retail, and the CTW sells for $595 US retail.

5) The CTW supposedly has hop-up upgrades and a 6.01mm barrel. Who knows if that is true, or if their upgrade is effective. A Systema hop-up can be upgraded if you know what you're doing, for minimal cost and effort if you're a smart fellow.

6) The CTW is not going to be a large release, there may be a few hundred units initially, but we'll see.

7) This is a first-run copy, and they missed the mark IMHO if they wanted to clone a PTW. There could be trouble ahead if folks think that they can plop in a battery and go. This gun was meant for the PTW market, plain and simple, not for guys wanting to try something different, and every trick and procedure you need to understand dealing with a PTW is going to apply to the CTW. And it's a new company with a Chinese clone of dubious quality and poor cloning choices.

Caveat emptor.

[ILLusion]

"CNC" can mean a lot of things and does not necessarily mean it is a quality product. It is not hard at all to CNC machine die-cast monkey metal. It is not uncommon at all to die-cast the basic shape of a product from crappy zinc aluminum, and then use CNC machining to finish up all the finer details to get the clean lines, such as hole placements, serrations, engravings, etc.

It is very important to also look at what the stock material is that is being "CNC Processed." Granted, a partially CNC'ed part would have cleaner lines and more consistent production compared to a fully die-casted product, but if you're comparing a receiver that is fully CNC'ed from a forged billet of 7075 aircraft grade aluminum versus a receiver is a "CNC finished" die-cast block of zinc-aluminum, then you are merely comparing apples to oranges.

Otherwise, "CNC" is just a marketing term.

[huang]

Instead of the systema cone, I would more look forward to the WA GBB M4 clone and G&P GBB M4 clone. WA GBB M4 clone should be available in summer.

[Schwag]

Why would anyone want a questionable clone of an already problematic gun?

[jameskersten]

Originally Posted by Schwag

Why would anyone want a questionable clone of an already problematic gun?

Bingo! And I am a man who loves his PTW but why wouldnt CTW copy that better motor and electronics? Its not like its been a secret that Systema has been plauged with issues on those things. I would be more impressed with CTW if they copied all the new stuff like the new motor and electronics. This is just a cheap copy and something that I think people are going to have a lot of issues with. If the price doesn't jusitfy the chance I also don't think it will do well particularly here in Canada where we pay a premium anyways.

[ILLusion]

Because that's how long CTW has been working on this clone.... 2 solid years... they only came out with it now, and they are 2 years behind.

[jesster202]

im pretty shure that they used cncd as a marking term they problay used casting then used the cnc's to machine out placment holes and the ejection ports .ect not to finish if they just used it to finish it then thats shuch a huge waste on machining time and cost per cut on them it would be allmost stuiped to even produce them at all and you can get awesome finishes on cast its just comes down to if the operator is knolleageble to clean the die portion befour recasting the next one or how fresh they are but im allmost certin it wouldnt be both it would be either cast and then cnced for placment of hole.ect or it could be very posible its all cnced but it wouldnt be casted and then cleaned up on the cnc. also it is right i rember bob saying he was getting some to test from them but that was allmost a year ago so its kinda stuipedly late at this point

[TwinGear]

Hi guys... Just googling about Celcius CTW and I found this interesting topic. I've got my new CTW X-MAX today.. It's an amazing gun! It has the 2009 ECU with blue light. And also a tight bore stainless steel barrel. I'll be sharing with you about the firing test later.

I'm a new user here, anyone got the X-MAX?

[L473ncy]

This is actually pretty interesting. I'd like to hear more. I'm assuming that you're located in the US am I right?

We in Canada don't have the kind of privileges you have in regards to Airsoft (with customs making up their own rules/interpreting things in their own special way as they go along and all that) so yeah....

With all these things coming out; the new big thing being GBBR's we live in interesting times. I'm still going to have to stick with running an AEG for now since I can't afford to waste time/money repairing this new technology.

Please give us an in depth review of the CTW, if you can, I'm interested in the CTW already but I'm probably going to still go with the PTW if I do get one of these guns. Please none of that lame guesswork and blatantly wrong statements like the "screechers" (kids who's balls haven't dropped yet) put up on youtube.