G&P M4 upgrade to fps 420

[kudykam]

Hi there,
I am considering upgrade of my AEG GP-625 to fps 420-430.

I choose these parts:
PDI 210% spring
Phoenix Super Power Gear Set for Marui AEG
Guarder Infinite Torque-Up Short Type Motor
Prometheus 6.03mm inner barrel (285mm)

My question are:

Is this spring suitable for V2 gearbox?? I bought Guarder M130 (they say fo any AEG) spring but I could not fit it in by any chance, it was too long...

Is this barrel suitable for my gun, even though is designated for TM MC51, but length is ok... Design should be all the same right??

Is these gear set suitable, quality and durable for these configuration?? I have titanium teeth piston (made in Czech republic by PowerUpgrade) which is excelent btw, but my last tooth at sector gear is totally rub off.

In combination with mentioned motor I would like to get ROF about 15-20 but not to high...
I didnt find ratio fot hese gear set but hopefully could be about 21...

Is this a good motor?? I dont want to spend too much money for systema motors....

My current configuration:
M4 made by G&P upgraded by WGC
Systema piston silent head
Standard Systema teflon cylinder (no bore up)
PDi 170% spring
PowerUpgrade all titanium teeth piston
6mm steel bearings
Systema standard ratio gear set
Systema hop-up
GP M120 motor
9,6V Sanyo 3300 mAh

Thanks for any advice....

[T-Hell]

Hot gun hot gun....

[Kingsix]

1st of all why 400+ fps it's not going to make you win more, you'd be stuck playing outdoors.
2nd I'm pretty sure you don't know your ROE for a hotgun
3rd It's going to be expensive to upgrade and maintain a 400+fps gun
4th Get Age verified no way I am trusting someone who hasn't got their AS License ( Age verification)

Hope it helps

[kudykam]

Originally Posted by Kingsix

1st of all why 400+ fps it's not going to make you win more, you'd be stuck playing outdoors.
2nd I'm pretty sure you don't know your ROE for a hotgun
3rd It's going to be expensive to upgrade and maintain a 400+fps gun
4th Get Age verified no way I am trusting someone who hasn't got their AS License ( Age verification)

Hope it helps

1st - I dont want to win more, but shoot long-range.
2nd - what is ROE? ROF = rate of fire (130 BB - one magazine, on full auto gone in 8 seconds = 16 BB/s)
3rd I am aware of it, 420 is not that much I think
4th Can't. And yes, I dont have AS license, why should I. I am not from america but europe, 18+ is only limit in Czech Republic. I am 27, btw.

I am just asking how to upgrade my airsoft gun, no how to make a bomb! Jees....
If you dont want to help or you can't keep your comment for yourself, thank you.

[m102404]

Don't know about the gearset...any quality torque up set should work fine.

Guarder Infinite Torque Up motor will work...M4 rifles require a LONG type...not short type motor.

An inner barrel..is an inner barrel...the hopup rubber cuts are all the same (note: M14 and some sniper rifle inner barrels are different).

The MC51 is fine. Is your cylinder ported...it should be.

Might just be a language thing....but metal bushings will last longer than bearings

an M120 spring might give you something close to 420...it'll be easier on your mechbox and the extra 10fps won't matter at all.

Use heavier bbs.

[kudykam]

Originally Posted by m102404

Don't know about the gearset...any quality torque up set should work fine.

Guarder Infinite Torque Up motor will work...M4 rifles require a LONG type...not short type motor.

An inner barrel..is an inner barrel...the hopup rubber cuts are all the same (note: M14 and some sniper rifle inner barrels are different).

The MC51 is fine. Is your cylinder ported...it should be.

Might just be a language thing....but metal bushings will last longer than bearings

an M120 spring might give you something close to 420...it'll be easier on your mechbox and the extra 10fps won't matter at all.

Use heavier bbs.

Ill check the motor again, just to be sure... GP M160 could be good as well I think.
What is ported cylinder??
Yes, I have metal bushnigs - language thing.
I am using 0,28 BBs

[drjimmy]

Originally Posted by kudykam

2nd - what is ROE? ROF = rate of fire (130 BB - one magazine, on full auto

ROE is rules of engagement. Meaning the hotter your gun, the more disipline required in close combat engagements. More of an etiquite thing than a technical thing and very little to do with your question.

Choice of battery will be important here as well.

[kudykam]

Originally Posted by drjimmy

ROE is rules of engagement. Meaning the hotter your gun, the more disipline required in close combat engagements. More of an etiquite thing than a technical thing and very little to do with your question.

Choice of battery will be important here as well.

Thanks for explanation...
I have a battery 9,6 V 3300 mAh

But as I explained above, mofset will solve the problem with too high fps and rof

[Skruface]

Originally Posted by kudykam

Hi there,
I am considering upgrade of my AEG GP-625 to fps 420-430.

I choose these parts:
PDI 210% spring
Phoenix Super Power Gear Set for Marui AEG
Guarder Infinite Torque-Up Short Type Motor
Prometheus 6.03mm inner barrel (285mm)

My question are:

Is this spring suitable for V2 gearbox?? I bought Guarder M130 (they say fo any AEG) spring but I could not fit it in by any chance, it was too long...

Is this barrel suitable for my gun, even though is designated for TM MC51, but length is ok... Design should be all the same right??

Is these gear set suitable, quality and durable for these configuration?? I have titanium teeth piston (made in Czech republic by PowerUpgrade) which is excelent btw, but my last tooth at sector gear is totally rub off.

In combination with mentioned motor I would like to get ROF about 15-20 but not to high...
I didnt find ratio fot hese gear set but hopefully could be about 21...

Is this a good motor?? I dont want to spend too much money for systema motors....

My current configuration:
M4 made by G&P upgraded by WGC
Systema piston silent head
Standard Systema teflon cylinder (no bore up)
PDi 170% spring
PowerUpgrade all titanium teeth piston
6mm steel bearings
Systema standard ratio gear set
Systema hop-up
GP M120 motor

Thanks for any advice....

Many people assume that if they throw enough money into upgrades, the guns will run perfectly forever...this is simply not true. These guns, from the factory, were never designed to be upgraded. As soon as you start upgrading, you reduce the lifecycle of every single part in the mechbox. I've been tinkering with these thing for the better part of a decade, and let me assure you, there is no gun that will run forever (although I have a totally stock TM AK47 that has seen in excess of 200,000 rounds).

So, here's my advice to you.

PDI springs are very inconsistent. I'd go with a Modify or Prometheus spring, personally.

The G&P M120 is a good motor, but not necessarily for your application. G&P rates its motor by spring power, so it's designed for an M120 spring....you're looking more at M130/M140 range with your choice of FPS. Personally, I would use a G&P M140 Torque motor, or even an M160 Supercharger. I have found the quality of Guarder motors is hit-and-miss, but I have all 3 types of G&P motors (120, 140, 160) and all have been great.

The cylinder - you will want to replace the M4 cylinder with a MC51 cylinder. Matching your cylinder's internal volume to the barrel length/volume is critical.

Using 6mm bearings in a high-fps gearbox is a recipe for disaster. Either buy an 8mm bearing gearbox and use high quality ceramic bearing (like Kanzen) or just use plain steel bushings...or, go with Modify Modular gears.

Your gear choice is fine for this setup, although I am not a big fan of Pheonix's "self shimming" setup - what happens when a spring wears out (and all springs WILL wear out)? I'd suggest looking at the Modify modular gearsets - roughly the same price as Systema, and just as good, but you won't have to mess around shimming them. You can get a High Torque set of these gears with a ratio of 21.6:1. I use these in almost all my guns now. Prometheus also make excellent gears. I'd also pick up a stock Tokyo Marui v2 gearbox shell (they can be had for about $40).

Since version 2 mechboxes all have the same design flaw (the front end inevitably breaks in cold weather and with a high-fps spring), you will also have problems with this. Since you are using a G&P metal body already, it would be worth picking up an Ajax Customs Shock Transfer System. A small price for a good investment.

http://www.tacticalairsoftsupply.com...ade-parts.html
YouTube - Ajax Custom Shock Transfer System Test G&G M16 564 fps Airsoft Rifle

I personally would not use a all-metal tooth piston. In non-stock setups, the piston is generally the part you want to wear out first....it's cheaper to replace a $20 stock TM piston than a $100 set of gears, as you now know.

You mention having a Systema hopup, but not which hopup rubber you use. I prefer Prometheus Hard, or, (assuming you can find it) a Firefly "Kurage/Spicy" hopup rubber.

[Azathoth]

Alot of good advice was mentioned by Skruface and M1024,

I would go with the prometheus/modify spring, and if you are trying to get more accuracy at a longer range just swap the spring to prom 120/135, and put in a longer barrel.

A prometheus Neo hopup set w/ rubber (firefly, prometheus either one) and 407mm+ barrel will probably make you and your wallet far more happier than what you have originally planned.

[ThunderCactus]

FPS has very little to do with range, you can get the same range and accuracy at 400fps and 310fps, it all has to do with the quality of your internals.
The piston is overkill, you could get away with using a systema piston with 3 metal teeth on it. 6mm bearing tend to explode, anyway I'm pretty sure you have 7mm bearings since it's a G&P. And you can use regular torque gears at 400fps as long as you have a 9.6v mini or an 8.4v large battery

[kudykam]

Originally Posted by Skruface

Many people assume that if they throw enough money into upgrades, the guns will run perfectly forever...this is simply not true. These guns, from the factory, were never designed to be upgraded. As soon as you start upgrading, you reduce the lifecycle of every single part in the mechbox. I've been tinkering with these thing for the better part of a decade, and let me assure you, there is no gun that will run forever (although I have a totally stock TM AK47 that has seen in excess of 200,000 rounds).

So, here's my advice to you.

PDI springs are very inconsistent. I'd go with a Modify or Prometheus spring, personally.

The G&P M120 is a good motor, but not necessarily for your application. G&P rates its motor by spring power, so it's designed for an M120 spring....you're looking more at M130/M140 range with your choice of FPS. Personally, I would use a G&P M140 Torque motor, or even an M160 Supercharger. I have found the quality of Guarder motors is hit-and-miss, but I have all 3 types of G&P motors (120, 140, 160) and all have been great.

The cylinder - you will want to replace the M4 cylinder with a MC51 cylinder. Matching your cylinder's internal volume to the barrel length/volume is critical.

Using 6mm bearings in a high-fps gearbox is a recipe for disaster. Either buy an 8mm bearing gearbox and use high quality ceramic bearing (like Kanzen) or just use plain steel bushings...or, go with Modify Modular gears.

Your gear choice is fine for this setup, although I am not a big fan of Pheonix's "self shimming" setup - what happens when a spring wears out (and all springs WILL wear out)? I'd suggest looking at the Modify modular gearsets - roughly the same price as Systema, and just as good, but you won't have to mess around shimming them. You can get a High Torque set of these gears with a ratio of 21.6:1. I use these in almost all my guns now. Prometheus also make excellent gears. I'd also pick up a stock Tokyo Marui v2 gearbox shell (they can be had for about $40).

Since version 2 mechboxes all have the same design flaw (the front end inevitably breaks in cold weather and with a high-fps spring), you will also have problems with this. Since you are using a G&P metal body already, it would be worth picking up an Ajax Customs Shock Transfer System. A small price for a good investment.


I personally would not use a all-metal tooth piston. In non-stock setups, the piston is generally the part you want to wear out first....it's cheaper to replace a $20 stock TM piston than a $100 set of gears, as you now know.

You mention having a Systema hopup, but not which hopup rubber you use. I prefer Prometheus Hard, or, (assuming you can find it) a Firefly "Kurage/Spicy" hopup rubber.

Thanks for your advice, I really appreciate it...

My first upgrade has been made by WGC shop so i was not exactly sure about my internals, so I made a deep search and found this:
(my current internals)

Guarder (accoring to WGC upgrade plan) or G&P metal Hop/up unit (according to visual comparation - no guarder sign on it), not sure about rubber, probably original GP
7 mm steel bushings/bearings - probably original GP

Systema teflon cylinder set I think cylinder size is suitable for 285 mm long barrel (not planning to get longer)

Systema gears

Guarder Air nozzle - bore up (larger hole diameter than standard)

Guarder enhanced tappet plate
Steel spring guide

Now back to your answers...

About PDI spring, I heard only the best, so I am little bit suprised with your advice... So which Prometheus spring is equivalent PDI 210 or rather fps 420 with these internals? How about the length? I bought guarder m130 and there were no way how could I put it in...too long. PDI is about 16 cm long.

GP M140 motor was also my first choice then I read somewhere that is not powerfull enough comparing to m120, so i will probably go with m160, i am just little bit afraid of too high rof, hopefully gears with 21,6 ratio will slow it down...

Cylinder - as I said, I see no reason to change it.... Enough volume for 285 mm long barrel

About bearings/bushings - it is steel, it is 7mm, but not sure if bushings or bearings, probably original GP - How can i see the diference? Is it enough for M130 spring?

Would you recommend to change hop up rubber??

I found Phoenix new Shock absorbable design gears quite interesting, but does it really works or is it just theory??? Price is also not really small... $96
I can use standard shimming insted of small springs anyway..

Ajax Customs Shock Transfer System is very interesting piece of HW, but for that price I can have brand new gearbox.... And i am not planing to get to 560 fps in freezing weather...

That piston cost me $50 usd, i am not planing to replace it. I already broke brand new systema piston just after few shots... This one is still good as new...

[ShelledPants]

I can't help but notice:

Originally Posted by kudykam

But as I explained above, mofset will solve the problem with too high fps and rof

MOSFET does NOT lower your fps. The spring's release is the contributing factor, all the MOSFET does is control how fast it is compressed... Physics does the rest. If you make your gun shoot 420fps, it will always fire 420 fps, the MOSFET will only allow you to shoot 420fps at different rates of fire.

[kudykam]

Originally Posted by ShelledPants

I can't help but notice:



MOSFET does NOT lower your fps. The spring's release is the contributing factor, all the MOSFET does is control how fast it is compressed... Physics does the rest. If you make your gun shoot 420fps, it will always fire 420 fps, the MOSFET will only allow you to shoot 420fps at different rates of fire.

Of course, you are right...

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by Kingsix

1st of all why 400+ fps it's not going to make you win more, you'd be stuck playing outdoors.
2nd I'm pretty sure you don't know your ROE for a hotgun
3rd It's going to be expensive to upgrade and maintain a 400+fps gun
4th Get Age verified no way I am trusting someone who hasn't got their AS License ( Age verification)

Hope it helps

Dude, he's not from Canada.