problem : Hi capa with upgraded slide and frame

[ichimaru gin]

Guys, I just installed shooters design metal slide and frame into my hi capa 5.1. My problems are :

The trigger must be pushed quite hard to release the hammer. I remembered when I used marui frame, only a slight push on the trigger would release the hammer.

on some rare occurence, because of this "hard trigger push" the hammer would go into half decock mode.

When I tighten the screw on the blowback housing, the slide would stuck. So What I did was untighten the screw until a certain point where its not tight enough and the cycling would go smoothly. Is this OK to do?

My gun was chronoed 276-280 FPS using guarder gas and .2 bb. Is this
normal?

Gas usage was quite high, I could only shoot 20 bbs using hi capa 4.3 mag

Thats all guys, Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

[Daiviet]

With the blowback housing, I have the same thing going on. Just unscrew it slightly and every once in a while just tighten it a bit more, should be fine.

I had the same problem with the hammer as well. First thing I noticed wiht mine is that the sear doesn't get pushed back enough because the hammer strut is too close. I'm not sure I did anything with that, But I'm gonna recommend to you what Illusion recommended to me.

Take apart the grip, and take out the trigger mechanism. On the back of the bar that pushes the sear back, all you need to do is either glue a flat piece of plastic on the back or put a few layers of tape so that it makes it bigger, and easier to pull the trigger.

Hope this helps.

[ichimaru gin]

Thanks sir, it really helps. Are you saying that after some regular use, the blowback housing can eventually be tightened?

I did put some 3 layers of electronic tape on the trigger bar but it really messed up the trigger mechanism. Maybe I put too much layer eh? I will try putting 1 layer then.

ABout the "half decock" mode, I dont really worry about too much because it occur rarely.

[m102404]

Originally Posted by ichimaru gin

Guys, I just installed shooters design metal slide and frame into my hi capa 5.1. My problems are :

The trigger must be pushed quite hard to release the hammer. I remembered when I used marui frame, only a slight push on the trigger would release the hammer.

on some rare occurence, because of this "hard trigger push" the hammer would go into half decock mode.

When I tighten the screw on the blowback housing, the slide would stuck. So What I did was untighten the screw until a certain point where its not tight enough and the cycling would go smoothly. Is this OK to do?

My gun was chronoed 2276-280 FPS using guarder gas and .2 bb. Is this
normal?

Gas usage was quite high, I could only shoot 20 bbs using hi capa 4.3 mag

Thats all guys, Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

2276fps w/0.20g bbs is NOT normal... just kidding around.

Torquing the the blowback unit out of alignment is "normal" I suppose...because it's happened on two of my pistols as well. The harder I tighten, the stickier the slide is. Both are SD slides. The front two rails of the blow back housing are rubbing the tops of the rear frame/rails. Don't even bother troubleshooting gas usage until that is sorted out. On mine...the housing was being tilted "down" at the front (i.e. the rear of the housing was clear from contacting the frame, but the front wasn't)

I did the following to get the slide moving smoothly.
- i used a set of honing stones to sand down the areas of the blow back housing that were contacting the frame. I used a sharpie marker to "blacken" the areas so the spots that were wearing would show up silver
- i inspected the rear area of the frame to see what was rubbing and lightly leveled those areas as well

I can now properly tighten up the screw and the action is pretty slick. A little grease on the rails and parts that ride on each other helps.

It took more than a few assemblies...I didn't want to take off any more material than I absolutely had to and I was using pretty fine honing stones. It's obviously a permanent modification...but that pistol is staying as is...so I'm not concerned with that.

So far as the trigger pull goes...I'd also examine the clearances around the opening for the trigger and trigger bar/loop to ensure that it's not binding or hanging up on the frame.

Best of luck.

[RacingManiac]

There is anothe potential issue with the trigger is that there might be relative movement between the trigger lopp and the trigger bar, causing the trigger to rotate or pivot slightly when you press the trigger not on the right spot, so instead of sliding back and forth you get a little rotation before it starts to moveback. Good way to know this is to try to depress the trigger at different spot and see if the pull gets easier. When I realized it was happening, I glued the trigger to the trigger bar to take out any possible relative movement.(Once you are sure won't switch to another trigger...lol).

[ichimaru gin]

Thanks for the replies guys, your comments really help me out.

Sir racing maniac, yes I spotted that the trigger is easier to pull when I press on the top and middle rather than the bottom. If I glue the trigger to the trigger bar, will I still be able to replace the trigger in the future? or do you recommend this AFTER I buy a new trigger (Because I am planning to buy a PDI metal trigger)

Sir m10204, Can I use sanding paper instead of honing stone? IF I dont want to do anything you suggested and leave the blowback housing "untightened" is it OK?
I'm afraid that High gas usage is caused by this.

[ILLusion]

I would recommend properly modifying the part blow back unit to fit so that you can fully secure it to the slide. Having it loose will cause inconsistent performance as well as an irregular wear pattern to all contacting parts. As the slide moves back, the blowback chamber will wobble around in the slide, causing excess wear. Several tens of thousands of rounds through the pistol later, it may be extremely wobbly in there.

Tyson's recommendation to file the back of the blowback unit so that it sits up more is the most ideal solution.

I've also experienced the trigger issues with the SD frames, and I solve them by adding just a small 4mm wide pad of paper on the back of the stirrup where it pushes on the sear trigger. Vary the thickness to get the pull length you want. It's possible to adjust the pad thick enough that a pull as little as 1mm is enough to trip the sear and fire a shot. However, I highly don't recommend doing this as it is a safety hazard. Your gun may go off in to full auto with the sear unable to catch after a bit of wear. High powered GBBs unexpectedly firing full auto can cause significant muzzle climb to have the muzzle shoot in unsafe directions when you least expect it.

I personally use cut up Post-It Notes (I know, it's not an ideal situation, but I'm just working with the materials I have on hand!). Multiple layers of it can adjust the trigger pull length.

[ichimaru gin]

Sir Illusion, which part should I file down? the blowback housing or the frame? Looks to me sir tyson filed them both.

[ILLusion]

Yes, he did - although for me, I would only modify the upper, as the majority of the inconsistent parts is in the top and not the bottom.

If the slide moves freely on the midframe (with no internals installed), then the slide to midframe connection is proper and doesn't require modification. At least that's my approach to doing these modifications. Other people modify the frame for the other parts that have conflicting fitment, but it renders those parts not as usable for any other parts as now they are custom-fitted to each other.

[ichimaru gin]

Sir, I did some filing with the blowback housing. I filed it just enough so that the slide wont stuck when I fire the gun. But when I did the black marker trick, I still spotted some parts sticking. Do I need to file it more until no part sticking?

Now, about the gas usage issue. Can you tell why the gas usage is high? I can only shoot 21 BBs using 4.3 mag and 24 BBs using 5.1 mag. Some people told me to replace the cylinder set to shooters design POM cylinder set to fix this problem. Any advise sir?

[m102404]

Illusion is dead on with trying the empty slide (i.e. nothing in it) on the lower. If it slides nicely...DON'T file anything on the slide or frame rails.

With just the blow back unit tightened in the slide...does it slide just as smoothly? If not, where is it rubbing? Those are the specific areas that you'll need to address. You're essentially custom fitting the housing to that frame and that slide.

I used honing stones...because they are flat, easy to handle and I have a number of different grits. The coarser ones did most of the work, the finer ones polished and took off any burrs.

Reference the following picture for the rest of this comment:


Note: It's "upside down" in the pic. When tightened into the slide, my housing was torqued such that the two "arms" (top, far left of the pic) were riding low and rubbing against the frame/hammer assembly. So 95% of the filing I did was to taper those "arms".

Also referencing the picture. I also had a bit of an issue where the "bump" (top, right end of the housing in the pic) was getting hung up with the trigger. The bump would ride back and cock the hammer as normal, but the corner of the hammer would get caught sometimes just inside the bump as the slide was moving forward. I ended up re-profiling the corner of the hammer so it wouldn't catch. I did not remove too much material so that the hammer would fully/reliably cock with each shot, but enough so that the slide will return to battery with little/no-resistance from the hammer.

Hope that helps...

About 4 hours into it...and you're thinking..."I should have left it stock"...but it's worth it in the end.

[ichimaru gin]

Sir tyson, My slide's action is slick now, thanks to your picture. Yeah The parts that you mentioned were the parts that I filed down. I didnt file it too much though because the resistance was very little. Now I can have the housing tigtened with no problem.

I have another problem though and I just realize it now. The safety thats located on the slide, it was stuck. I dont know whats causing it but I cant move it right now. I disassembled the gun, removed the hammer spring and the safety would function again. But after several shot, I would need quite a force to even move the safety. Any ideas?

[Shirley]

Originally Posted by ichimaru gin

Sir tyson, My slide's action is slick now, thanks to your picture. Yeah The parts that you mentioned were the parts that I filed down. I didnt file it too much though because the resistance was very little. Now I can have the housing tigtened with no problem.

I have another problem though and I just realize it now. The safety thats located on the slide, it was stuck. I dont know whats causing it but I cant move it right now. I disassembled the gun, removed the hammer spring and the safety would function again. But after several shot, I would need quite a force to even move the safety. Any ideas?

How is it stuck? Stuck on safety?
Does the safety lever move up while you shoot?
Probably your leaf spring.

[ILLusion]

Are you talking about the slide stop or the thumb safety?

[ichimaru gin]

Its the safety that must be pushed up when the hammer is cocked(located on the back of the frame). I dont know what this called. I think its the thumb safety.
The problem is : after several shot, it would be really hard to use my thumb to put the lever into safety,(pushing it up). I have to take down the hammer spring and thumb safety assembly, move the hammer back and forth by hand, reinstall the thumb safety and it would work again.