KJW(/TM) M9 won't release gas after dissassembly

FirestormX · December 6th, 2012, 02:12

Hi everyone,
Hopefully my descriptions in this post will make sense to anyone who's worked with a KJW/TM M9. If not, I can try to describe it better, and/or take more pictures.

I took apart a KJW M9's trigger assembly to replace a broken trigger spring, and now that I've put it back together, I've found that the internal hammer (that's what I've seen disassembly guides refer to it as - it's the piece of metal that hits the valve on the mag) is not staying positioned as the angle that it should.

Here is a picture of how it should be positioned - angled downwards (using a screwdriver to push it down), and coloured red:

But this is the position it is sitting at (note how there is now a gap above and below the internal hammer, as opposed to there being only a gap above the internal hammer in the above image):

As such, the internal hammer will hit the back of the mag above the valve release (if I understand the mechanism correctly).

The internal hammer is held in place by a spring, that coils around the axis that the external hammer rotates around, so I've tried different angles of the spring at the point that the tip of the end of the spring enters the internal hammer, but I can't get it to point straight down.

I have another KJW M9, which I did not disassemble, and its internal hammer has tension that pushes it down, if I were to reach into the magwell and try to push the internal hammer upwards. I'm too scared to try open this one up now, to see how it works. =P

I've spent hours before bed, taking this apart and reassembling it, for the past several days, so I'm hoping someone can point out what it is that I'm missing.

Thanks

BennyBoy · December 6th, 2012, 02:25

taking a shot in the dark here but did you try putting it the other way? the tip facing up and tip facing dawn switching positions?

Styrak · December 6th, 2012, 03:55

Firestorm, if you can't figure it out I can fix it for you.

FirestormX · December 7th, 2012, 15:40

Thanks Styrak. If I can't get it figured out, I'd like to have a gun doc look at it. I'd prefer local, but if local isn't available due to the holiday season, I'll take you up on that.
I'm actually trying to get this fixed up for a trade, so having a gun doc fix it would give me the most peace of mind, that the guy I'm trading it to, doesn't end up with a useless piece of metal.

BennyBoy: I'm not sure which part you mean to flip.
I tried flipping a few things around, just as a sanity check, but the pieces don't work when they're flipped.
I flipped the internal hammer along the z-axis of that picture (there's a notch in the round axle-thingy, that requires that side of the post to point upwards), and also tried flipping the spring around, but neither fix it.

Does anyone else have any suggestions? These M9s are very common, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has had this problem.

Styrak · December 7th, 2012, 16:05

Are you MISSING a spring, or is it broken? There is a spring that should be anchored around the post of the gas hammer, and pressing downwards on it.

FirestormX · December 7th, 2012, 16:28

I don't think I'm missing a spring.
The only spring that I have, that interacts with the gas hammer, is one that goes into the square hole , and, in my first picture above, creates sort of a right triangle with the hammer. Where the (red) gas hammer is the hypotenuse, and the pivot point of the external hammer is the 90 degree corner.

I can take my own pictures when I'm home, but to explain a bit further, I'll use pictures from a dissassembly guide:

This is the square hole I mean:

And this is the only spring I have (the straight part goes through the square hole, and pulls the gas hammer backwards with the external hammer). In the background of the picture is the external hammer. If you imagine the hand in the picture moving upwards a little bit, the hole in the spring lines up the hole in the external hammer.

Sorry for trying to crappily describe it, instead of just providing my own pictures.

Stealth · December 7th, 2012, 18:02

Jesus... Back in the day with no YouTube we did this... Can't believe it's been 9 years since...

Here's a link to a disassembly thread. Hope it helps.

http://web.archive.org/web/200706190...read.php?t=911

FirestormX · December 7th, 2012, 18:25

Wow, how'd you find that thread? Does the waybackmachine have a search option, or did you just memorize thread id 911? =P

Thanks for the link, but unfortunately it doesn't help too much, as I've managed to do the whole disassembly bit on my own.

I looked up a diagram to make sure I wasn't missing a spring, and I'm pretty sure I've got all the pieces:
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...s/8b50ac2c.jpg

Going by the part numbers (all located in the bottom left corner of the diagram), part 38 is the hammer, and part 40 is the spring that moves part 38 back and forth with the external hammer. I have part 41 and spring 48 installed correctly as well, to the best of my knowledge, but I'm wondering if I somehow screwed it up. The mechanism looks like part 41 is supposed to move downwards as the external hammer is pulled back, allowing the gas hammer to move backwards as well.

Maybe there's a position that piece 41 is supposed to be in, that puts pressure on part 38 to keep it angled down? I've already got the notch in the top left side of part 41 as intermeshed as possible into the notch on the internal hammer.

e-luder · December 7th, 2012, 18:39

the spring pivots around the external hammer post ( the coil needs to be around it). the flat needs to apply pressure pulling the firing pin backwards.

the part of the spring where there is a bend should rest on the hammer assembley like in the previous pic.

it could be possible that spring straight part of the spring is overcoiled and can't pull the firing pin to the rear...

Stealth · December 7th, 2012, 19:15

I found the thread through a link of it back in 2007, but the link was broken. Had to use the wayback machine on the original thread number.

Here's the original picture I was referring to back then. From memory (it's been 10 years...) I didn't have much issue reinstalling that part. To be honest your pictures look fine. Can you reinstall everything without the slide so that you see where the hammer hits the mag valve?

Straight end of 42 (spring) goes into hole on 41 (firing pin). Look at the diagram for the correct orientation of 41. Coils of 42 would then sit in the middle of 36 (hammer). 40(brass cylinder) sits inside the hammer. All of the above are threaded through this pole/cylinder/pin that is sticking out of 33 (right hand side of the metal casing/guide rail)

FirestormX · December 7th, 2012, 19:16

Thanks e-luder. I believe I've got the spring in the correct place (based on your description).
The spring does its job of moving the gas hammer forward and backwards. It's more that the angle that the tip of the hammer is pointing is incorrect. If that makes sense.

Going by the original picture, the spring correctly moves the hammer "horizontally", but the angle that the hammer points is not lining up vertically.

Edit: Sorry, I posted before Stealth's post.
I have reassembled it without the slide, and I'm able to see where the hammer is striking the mag. It strikes it just above the release. If I stick a screwdriver down from the top of the magwell (where the slide would normally block it) and keep the gas hammer pointed downwards when the trigger is pulled, then it fires alright.

e-luder · December 8th, 2012, 15:38

The only one way see this happening is if the square piece that locks on the firing pin doesnt move up or down when the hammer is cocked. The function of that piece is to jam the firing pin so that the spring your are mentioning doeant pull the firing to the rear when the hammer is cocked. This is done via the little notch on the firing pin that the square piece fits into.

There is also a tiny apring that activatea that square piece. you can see it when you pull the hammer housing out. make sure you seet it properly. sometimes it gets hammes behind the hammer.

FirestormX · December 14th, 2012, 02:20

Thanks e-luder. You're right about the purpose of the spring, but I was careful with that as well.

I ended up taking it to HKGhost, and he fixed it. He told me the spring was bent incorrectly (he looked up what a stock spring is angled at). I played around with bending the spring (at the point where it enters the firing pin) quite a bit, but I never thought to look up a picture of the stock spring, damnit!

So it was indeed the spring. Thanks for all your input, everyone!

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December 6th, 2012, 02:12	#1
FirestormX Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mississauga, Ontario	KJW(/TM) M9 won't release gas after dissassembly Hi everyone, Hopefully my descriptions in this post will make sense to anyone who's worked with a KJW/TM M9. If not, I can try to describe it better, and/or take more pictures. I took apart a KJW M9's trigger assembly to replace a broken trigger spring, and now that I've put it back together, I've found that the internal hammer (that's what I've seen disassembly guides refer to it as - it's the piece of metal that hits the valve on the mag) is not staying positioned as the angle that it should. Here is a picture of how it should be positioned - angled downwards (using a screwdriver to push it down), and coloured red: But this is the position it is sitting at (note how there is now a gap above and below the internal hammer, as opposed to there being only a gap above the internal hammer in the above image): As such, the internal hammer will hit the back of the mag above the valve release (if I understand the mechanism correctly). The internal hammer is held in place by a spring, that coils around the axis that the external hammer rotates around, so I've tried different angles of the spring at the point that the tip of the end of the spring enters the internal hammer, but I can't get it to point straight down. I have another KJW M9, which I did not disassemble, and its internal hammer has tension that pushes it down, if I were to reach into the magwell and try to push the internal hammer upwards. I'm too scared to try open this one up now, to see how it works. =P I've spent hours before bed, taking this apart and reassembling it, for the past several days, so I'm hoping someone can point out what it is that I'm missing. Thanks

December 6th, 2012, 03:55	#3
Styrak Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Saskatoon, SK	Firestorm, if you can't figure it out I can fix it for you. __________________ Airsoft Sales and Repair/Upgrade Services

December 7th, 2012, 16:05	#5
Styrak Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Saskatoon, SK	Are you MISSING a spring, or is it broken? There is a spring that should be anchored around the post of the gas hammer, and pressing downwards on it. __________________ Airsoft Sales and Repair/Upgrade Services

December 7th, 2012, 15:40	#4
FirestormX Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mississauga, Ontario	Thanks Styrak. If I can't get it figured out, I'd like to have a gun doc look at it. I'd prefer local, but if local isn't available due to the holiday season, I'll take you up on that. I'm actually trying to get this fixed up for a trade, so having a gun doc fix it would give me the most peace of mind, that the guy I'm trading it to, doesn't end up with a useless piece of metal. BennyBoy: I'm not sure which part you mean to flip. I tried flipping a few things around, just as a sanity check, but the pieces don't work when they're flipped. I flipped the internal hammer along the z-axis of that picture (there's a notch in the round axle-thingy, that requires that side of the post to point upwards), and also tried flipping the spring around, but neither fix it. Does anyone else have any suggestions? These M9s are very common, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has had this problem.

December 7th, 2012, 16:28	#6
FirestormX Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mississauga, Ontario	I don't think I'm missing a spring. The only spring that I have, that interacts with the gas hammer, is one that goes into the square hole , and, in my first picture above, creates sort of a right triangle with the hammer. Where the (red) gas hammer is the hypotenuse, and the pivot point of the external hammer is the 90 degree corner. I can take my own pictures when I'm home, but to explain a bit further, I'll use pictures from a dissassembly guide: This is the square hole I mean: And this is the only spring I have (the straight part goes through the square hole, and pulls the gas hammer backwards with the external hammer). In the background of the picture is the external hammer. If you imagine the hand in the picture moving upwards a little bit, the hole in the spring lines up the hole in the external hammer. Sorry for trying to crappily describe it, instead of just providing my own pictures.

December 7th, 2012, 18:02	#7
Stealth Mr. Silencer Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto	Jesus... Back in the day with no YouTube we did this... Can't believe it's been 9 years since... Here's a link to a disassembly thread. Hope it helps. http://web.archive.org/web/200706190...read.php?t=911

December 7th, 2012, 18:25	#8
FirestormX Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mississauga, Ontario	Wow, how'd you find that thread? Does the waybackmachine have a search option, or did you just memorize thread id 911? =P Thanks for the link, but unfortunately it doesn't help too much, as I've managed to do the whole disassembly bit on my own. I looked up a diagram to make sure I wasn't missing a spring, and I'm pretty sure I've got all the pieces: http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...s/8b50ac2c.jpg Going by the part numbers (all located in the bottom left corner of the diagram), part 38 is the hammer, and part 40 is the spring that moves part 38 back and forth with the external hammer. I have part 41 and spring 48 installed correctly as well, to the best of my knowledge, but I'm wondering if I somehow screwed it up. The mechanism looks like part 41 is supposed to move downwards as the external hammer is pulled back, allowing the gas hammer to move backwards as well. Maybe there's a position that piece 41 is supposed to be in, that puts pressure on part 38 to keep it angled down? I've already got the notch in the top left side of part 41 as intermeshed as possible into the notch on the internal hammer.

December 7th, 2012, 18:39	#9
e-luder Trader rating Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Centre Mass	the spring pivots around the external hammer post ( the coil needs to be around it). the flat needs to apply pressure pulling the firing pin backwards. the part of the spring where there is a bend should rest on the hammer assembley like in the previous pic. it could be possible that spring straight part of the spring is overcoiled and can't pull the firing pin to the rear... __________________ "May you fight with the strength of ten full grown men."

December 7th, 2012, 19:15	#10
Stealth Mr. Silencer Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto	I found the thread through a link of it back in 2007, but the link was broken. Had to use the wayback machine on the original thread number. Here's the original picture I was referring to back then. From memory (it's been 10 years...) I didn't have much issue reinstalling that part. To be honest your pictures look fine. Can you reinstall everything without the slide so that you see where the hammer hits the mag valve? Straight end of 42 (spring) goes into hole on 41 (firing pin). Look at the diagram for the correct orientation of 41. Coils of 42 would then sit in the middle of 36 (hammer). 40(brass cylinder) sits inside the hammer. All of the above are threaded through this pole/cylinder/pin that is sticking out of 33 (right hand side of the metal casing/guide rail)

December 7th, 2012, 19:16	#11
FirestormX Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mississauga, Ontario	Thanks e-luder. I believe I've got the spring in the correct place (based on your description). The spring does its job of moving the gas hammer forward and backwards. It's more that the angle that the tip of the hammer is pointing is incorrect. If that makes sense. Going by the original picture, the spring correctly moves the hammer "horizontally", but the angle that the hammer points is not lining up vertically. Edit: Sorry, I posted before Stealth's post. I have reassembled it without the slide, and I'm able to see where the hammer is striking the mag. It strikes it just above the release. If I stick a screwdriver down from the top of the magwell (where the slide would normally block it) and keep the gas hammer pointed downwards when the trigger is pulled, then it fires alright. Last edited by FirestormX; December 7th, 2012 at 19:20..

December 8th, 2012, 15:38	#12
e-luder Trader rating Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Centre Mass	The only one way see this happening is if the square piece that locks on the firing pin doesnt move up or down when the hammer is cocked. The function of that piece is to jam the firing pin so that the spring your are mentioning doeant pull the firing to the rear when the hammer is cocked. This is done via the little notch on the firing pin that the square piece fits into. There is also a tiny apring that activatea that square piece. you can see it when you pull the hammer housing out. make sure you seet it properly. sometimes it gets hammes behind the hammer. __________________ "May you fight with the strength of ten full grown men."

December 14th, 2012, 02:20	#13
FirestormX Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mississauga, Ontario	Thanks e-luder. You're right about the purpose of the spring, but I was careful with that as well. I ended up taking it to HKGhost, and he fixed it. He told me the spring was bent incorrectly (he looked up what a stock spring is angled at). I played around with bending the spring (at the point where it enters the firing pin) quite a bit, but I never thought to look up a picture of the stock spring, damnit! So it was indeed the spring. Thanks for all your input, everyone!

KJW(/TM) M9 won't release gas after dissassembly

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