Ares G36c lipo upgrade

[▼Stripes▲]

I recently put an 11.1v lipo battery in my ares G36c. I am using a 408fps spring as well. This combination broke the teeth on my sector gear and I am considering just replacing the entire gearset. Anyone have any recommendations as to what gears I should get? Not asking where to get them just looking for advice. I don't want to buy a new set of gears to have them break on me. Or buy a set that's way more than I need.

[Styrak]

How about you try a less powerful battery?

[L473ncy]

You should note this, DO NOT FIRE YOUR GUN WITH THE BOLT BACK. There is a design flaw with the ARES G36 (EBB) where if you fire the gun with the bolt back it will shred your gears.

As for replacement; VFC has some nice "auto shimming" gears with springs on them that will do all the shimming for you. Get this set if you want, it should be compatible but I can't guarantee 100% if fitment will be 100% right due to tolerances of different brands. http://airsoftgear.ca/index.php?main...roducts_id=957

Otherwise Element actually makes a pretty kickass "economy" gearset. I have a set of Element Torque gears in my gun and it shoots pretty well.

Modify also has a "modular" gearset that is a different take on the "auto shimming"/preshimming gears but the danger is that if you break one gear the whole unit is toast or something. http://www.airsoftparts.ca/store2/in...oducts_id=1226

[▼Stripes▲]

Originally Posted by Styrak

How about you try a less powerful battery?

The Lipo and the balancer I needed to charge it was an $80 investment so I'd prefer not to. In addition my 8.4v battery doesn't have enough juice to pull back my spring. I'd like to avoid NiMh and NiCad batteries because the cold kills them practically before I get to the field so that rules out a 9.6 unless I feel like buying 12 of the damned things.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by L473ncy

You should note this, DO NOT FIRE YOUR GUN WITH THE BOLT BACK. There is a design flaw with the ARES G36 (EBB) where if you fire the gun with the bolt back it will shred your gears.

As for replacement; VFC has some nice "auto shimming" gears with springs on them that will do all the shimming for you. Get this set if you want, it should be compatible but I can't guarantee 100% if fitment will be 100% right due to tolerances of different brands. http://airsoftgear.ca/index.php?main...roducts_id=957

Otherwise Element actually makes a pretty kickass "economy" gearset. I have a set of Element Torque gears in my gun and it shoots pretty well.

Modify also has a "modular" gearset that is a different take on the "auto shimming"/preshimming gears but the danger is that if you break one gear the whole unit is toast or something. http://www.airsoftparts.ca/store2/in...oducts_id=1226

If you hold the bolt open, you are also enabling the spring tension release which basically disables the anti reversal latch. So if you fire and release the gears will spin "backwards" as the spring tension is relieved. If you fire again while the gears are spinning backwards you will put a lot of stress on the gears.

[iKliiu]

SHS gears are also very good, and you can get them for under $30 shipped.

[Jackarutu]

I would like to correct what L473ncy said about not being able to replace the gears in a Modify Modular gear set. Modify offers replace gears for the spur and bevel gear for some of their sets.

Modify Part Number GB-09-41 & GM 09-41 series (torque and nano torque).

It's possible there may be others that just are not listed.

In all the time I have been selling them I've had to replace one spur gear due to BBs jamming.

[▼Stripes▲]

Alright I'm currently looking at these two sets of gears

http://www.airsoftparts.ca/store2/in...oducts_id=1784

and

http://www.airsoftparts.ca/store2/in...oducts_id=1574

my question is to use helical gears do I need to get a specific piston (one with helical teeth) in the picture it appears as though the teeth return to straight teeth where it engages with the piston but I'd prefer to err on the side of caution and just ask.

[Trev140_0]

Hey Stripes,

Its me bro...

Anyway MaciekA who you know is a huge resource for this. I am sure he can offer you some assistance. He played with you at SOF a couple of times...

[Trev140_0]

Here is some of MaciekA's great write ups. He is solid on this stuff.


Originally Posted by Trev140_0
1) Gears... you you have a brand you have found to be bullet proof?

SHS is pretty decent if you don't have gobs of money. SHS is the manufacturer of King Arms parts (you've probably noticed their gearsets and various other parts look identical aside from branding, this is why). I have a number of gearsets in my collection of guns: SHS, Modify, JG, DBoys, G&P, G&G. The only gears I've tried which I'd describe as absolutely terrible are G&P gears. If you can believe me, I'm actually in the midst of compiling a list citations from the net mentioning G&P gear shaft failures so I can shame G&P in a systematic way. I myself saw several G&P shafts snap in one summer on my own guns, stock, brand new from the store. Avoid G&P gears at all costs, especially if untrusted people have had their paws in your gearbox or if your G&P gun came with an all metal piston (like the Canadian Carbine..).

Wanna know what happens if your G&P gears aren't perfectly aligned/shimmed/whatever and you fire that M120 in just the right way?

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 915x726 and weights 78KB.


Yep... G&P gears = sketchy

The strongest gears on the market are the RiotSC gears made in the USA by Siegetek Concepts. They are CNC machined gears, made from chromium molybdenum steel which has been hardened through (I presume) heat treatment (usually noticeable from a dark shade of metal vs. light). They aren't cheap, but they don't seem much more expensive than the pricey gears on the market like Prometheus or Modify SMOOTH, yet they are far far stronger. I've seen Hunterseeker5 mention that they are designed to withstand several 100s of Newtons of force (I believe the figure I read was 300N). It's my understanding that this is far more intense than any spring and motor combo can exert -- but I'm not a mechanical engineer, I just read a lot ..

Lately, I'm a fan of the SHS stuff. I like the fact that they're King Arms gears disguised as budget gears. I've been advising Ding on his DMR project, and he is using the SHS triple torque (300:100) helical gears. I have the same gears in my G&P C8. They're exceptionally quiet, but you have to shim them to very precise tolerances or you risk some off-axis forces causing play -- they aren't automotive-style double-helical gears after all.

If you want to really get an idea of what is real and what is bullshit, I recommend spending a few months on Airsoft Mechanics. Many of the folks there are regularly building setups which are either north of 35 rounds per second or 450fps. Some guys are exceeding 50-60rps. Some guys are shooting well past 500fps. They're learning some amazing things about the limits and engineering of these toys... And they're often using budget brands like SHS or JG. So ask yourself.. if these guys are way out on the bleeding edge with budget parts, what's stopping us from making our middle-of-the-road builds reliable, which fire sub-20rps and below 400fps? I've come to believe that the answer is extremely careful builds which take every point of failure into account. Angle of engagement. Shimming. Proper air seal. Perfect bevel-to-pinion alignment with absolutely no hint of the motor pushing the bevel off-axis. Etc. I bet the the wisest of the wise airsoft hackers can build a more reliable setup with properly-tuned budget parts than an fool like myself could build with super high-end stuff This is why I'm more interested in mastering the basics through dumb repetition and experimentation.

[ThunderCactus]

I run prometheus gears and pistons in all my guns, never had any issues from 300-470fps, from 800-1600rpm
Using double torques in my old M4 I could pull a 380fps spring on a G&P M140 with an 8.4v mini battery at 800rpm, and at 960rpm with a 9.6v mini.
Wanting a faster RoF and cold weather performance is one thing, but if you're not getting at least 900-1100rpm on a 9.6v mini, the problem is not the battery.

And what protections are in place for your LiPo? Do you have a MOSFET switch? Have you read the thread on LiPo's?
If you're not running a MOSFET I highly recommend switching to a 7.4v LiPo, quality motor, and a quality standard ratio gearset. The added amperage of the LiPo will offer about the same power as a 9.6v mini, and with a better motor you should be able to run a 380-400fps at a respectable RoF no problem.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by ▼Stripes▲

I recently put an 11.1v lipo battery in my ares G36c. I am using a 408fps spring as well. This combination broke the teeth on my sector gear and I am considering just replacing the entire gearset. Anyone have any recommendations as to what gears I should get? Not asking where to get them just looking for advice. I don't want to buy a new set of gears to have them break on me. Or buy a set that's way more than I need.

First, the only reason the sector gear shed some teeth was improper shimming from the factory., I just sold my ARES G36c (cylinder matched to barrel and shimmed the mechbox) and she loved my 11.1v 2200mah 25C lipo. As for recommendations for a new gear set, I would go with a set of SHS 16:1 gears, best bang for you're buck. You could go Promy, but for the price you could by 4 sets of SHS gears In my experience, the gear failure rate of the promy's is higher. The only SHS gear set failure I have had was in my P90, 13:1 SHS gears an m110 spring on a 14.8v 4000mah 25c Lipo battery, she failed somewhere around 44RPS. It wasn't a train wreck either, just the point on the bevel gear where it is pressed together came loose. The new owner installed a new SHS bevel gear and it is running just fine with that set up. As far as running a Mosfet, if you do, make damn sure it is not active/passive breaking, due to the micro switch installed, they will not work together very nice.
-Ryan.

[ThunderCactus]

Prometheus gears failures? Didn't even know that was possible
But were you using a prom gearset at 44RPS? Cause that's just retarded, they're the heaviest gears I've ever seen, you can't use them at high speed, they provide way too much momentum

[HKGhost]

Not sure what ROF you're going for, but if you're going for 400FPS (+/- 10FPS) and using lipo, use standard ratio gears (Modify, Promy, SHS, KA or even XYT if you're on a tight budget) and you should get around 20rps with an 11.1v lipo. Make sure to do a very good shim job and check AOE. Making sure all the parts are "fitted" to each other is very important for reliability when running Lipos.

[Fuzzy]

My ares G36c with 11.1 lipo gets 18 rps. A little over 400fps and stock gearset.

Is a MOSFET needed with the microswitch? There are no mechanical contacts to burn and the microswitch seems to easily handle the voltage.