VFC low FPS problem.

[pestobanana]

Originally Posted by chaz

Didn't you put an SHS piston in my VFC?

Yes and I probably had to sand down the channel between the guide rails to get it to work smoothly. Nothing wrong with having to sand a piston to make it work, but it definitely doesn't make SHS "more compatible" as he claimed.

[Hectic]

http://www.airsoftparts.ca/store2/in...oducts_id=2410
that shs says for vfc and other slim gearboxes.
i have a lonex red in my vfc 417. I needed to slim out the rear of the piston, the squared off part between the rails and teeth.

[warplane95]

Here's my order.
Airsoftstore.ca
1 x Lonex Aluminum Cylinder Head for Ver. 2 (GB-01-05) = $16.50
1 x Lonex Shim Set (0.10mm & 0.20mm) - 20pcs (GB-01-77) = $3.85
1 x Lonex Shim Set (0.15mm & 0.30mm) - 20pcs (GB-01-45) = $3.85
1 x Lonex Enhanced Super Gear Set - High Speed Ratio (16:1) (GB-00-04) =
$54.45
1 x Lonex Improved Hop-Up Bucking & Sleeve (50D) (GB-01-35) = $6.05
1 x HS5 Armory IR-Hop Z-Kit (ZKIT) = $19.75
1 x Lonex Teflon Cylinder Grease (GB-01-80) = $5.45
1 x Lonex Teflon Gear Grease (GB-01-79) = $5.45
1 x Lonex POM Ventilated Piston Head (GB-01-10B) = $18.70
1 x ASC™ V2/V3 Sorbo Buddy - 3/16" - 70 Hardness (SRBOBUD-V23-70) = $5.50
1 x Lonex M110SP non-linear spring (GB-04-02) = $12.65
2 x Deans Ultra Connectors with Heatshrink (DEANS) = $6.60
1 x Nano-Tech 11.1V 1200mah 25C Stick Battery (NG1200A.3S.25) = $22.95
Add Female Deans plug+heatshrink Yes, please include 1 with battery
1 x HS5 R-hop ZKit Installation Tool (RHOPTOOL) = $19.75
1 x Lonex Extreme Toughness Piston (10-Teeth - Burgundy) (GB-01-65) =
$27.45
1 x Gate PicoAAB (G-PICOAAB) = $44.95

airsoftparts.ca
1 x Tienly GT-45000 Ultra Performance Long Motor $89.00
1 x XCortech X3200 Chronograph $99.00

wgcshop:
prometheus 363mm 6.03
prometheus hop up tensioner (flat)

[pestobanana]

I love how you ask people for parts lists and then don't listen to suggestions but decide to get all Lonex anyway.

[BioRage]

Originally Posted by pestobanana

I love how you ask people for parts lists and then don't listen to suggestions but decide to get all Lonex anyway.

dis is where you stop helping.

[Stealth]

Originally Posted by pestobanana

I love how you ask people for parts lists and then don't listen to suggestions but decide to get all Lonex anyway.

Your parts list isn't readily available in Canada and is an overkill for a 400FPS setup. Not to mention the parts alone cost more than the gun itself, and most of the parts requires time to rework and make compatible with the other parts.

I won't say that Lonex makes the best of everything, but they have much better Quality Control versus the Chinese brands, and when they have issues, they listen and they fix it.

They're also very reasonably priced and offer customers a great quality to price ratio.

With that said, no manufacturers are perfect and even some of the parts you've quoted experience this.

I've broken Siegetek gears. They aren't indestructible and cost more than twice of lonex gears. However Danny is awesome and will guarantee the gears for life. You still have to spend 15 bucks shipping him the broken gears.

BTC spectres are now mythical. Good luck finding one.

Retro Arms Pistons have exploded. Check ASM. They also aren't readily available in Canada. Lonex pistons are heavy but they are the best Pistons on the market right now. You need to spend time Swiss cheesing to make them work with a 30rps+ setup but it's part of the building process.

SHS products are cheap but I simply don't trust the quality without verifying it myself. The fact that you have to sand the piston demonstrates this. Not everyone will do this and will run into issues.

[pestobanana]

Originally Posted by Stealth

Your parts list isn't readily available in Canada and is an overkill for a 400FPS setup. Not to mention the parts alone cost more than the gun itself, and most of the parts requires time to rework and make compatible with the other parts.

I won't say that Lonex makes the best of everything, but they have much better Quality Control versus the Chinese brands, and when they have issues, they listen and they fix it.

They're also very reasonably priced and offer customers a great quality to price ratio.

With that said, no manufacturers are perfect and even some of the parts you've quoted experience this.

I've broken Siegetek gears. They aren't indestructible and cost more than twice of lonex gears. However Danny is awesome and will guarantee the gears for life. You still have to spend 15 bucks shipping him the broken gears.

BTC spectres are now mythical. Good luck finding one.

Retro Arms Pistons have exploded. Check ASM. They also aren't readily available in Canada. Lonex pistons are heavy but they are the best Pistons on the market right now. You need to spend time Swiss cheesing to make them work with a 30rps+ setup but it's part of the building process.

SHS products are cheap but I simply don't trust the quality without verifying it myself. The fact that you have to sand the piston demonstrates this. Not everyone will do this and will run into issues.

In my opinion lonex is only really good for two things: their pistons and piston heads. They're the best general purpose pistons. Everything else they do is average. Half of their air nozzles don't seal on anything due to machining errors for the internal O ring channel. I've had at least 5 like this. I've had two Lonex gear sets, both were defective out of the box. One had a cracked sector gear, the other had a bent spur shaft. The bevel gear on the latter stripped in a mild build without much use. Their motors have comparatively weak magnets, and their commutators are extremely inconsistent. I've seen at least 5 with bad comms. For people reading this, I'm not bashing Stealth's shop, his customer support is fantastic. This is my experience with Lonex as a brand.

As for RA, yes their QC is terrible. Some of their racks can be bent by hand, almost as soft as TM metal. Some of their pistons are strong though. Some.

SHS is a Chinese lottery brand, but if you happen to get a good batch their parts are great for the price. I've never had problems with the strength of their pistons, only problems with fitment.

Also going to say that 16:1 gears and a Tienly 45 is going to easily put the OP around the 40 RPS mark. Unless he knows how to build high speed stuff this is going to end very poorly.

[EOD Steve]

Has this turned into another dick-waving competition?

Keep this thread on-topic and relevant to the experience-level of the OP. Most guys actively participating in this thread have been tech'ing for years (some who tech 8+ hours a day) and fail to recognize that the average ability/skill level of guys like OP are minimal to low. Think back to the first time you ever opened a V2 box, now start there. I feel like most of these "what upgrade parts are good? What is a good parts list" type threads degrade into tech showcases where super high-end parts lists, niche mods and difficult to modify/difficult to find parts are flaunted with little to no regard for the actual context of the thread.

OP is looking for a simple ready-to-go parts list of stuff he can assemble simply without having to mod or worry about failures or bad batches of parts.

[EOD Steve]

Originally Posted by pestobanana

In my opinion lonex is only really good for two things: their pistons and piston heads. They're the best general purpose pistons. Everything else they do is average. Half of their air nozzles don't seal on anything due to machining errors for the internal O ring channel. I've had at least 5 like this. I've had two Lonex gear sets, both were defective out of the box. One had a cracked sector gear, the other had a bent spur shaft. The bevel gear on the latter stripped in a mild build without much use. Their motors have comparatively weak magnets, and their commutators are extremely inconsistent. I've seen at least 5 with bad comms. For people reading this, I'm not bashing Stealth's shop, his customer support is fantastic. This is my experience with Lonex as a brand.

As for RA, yes their QC is terrible. Some of their racks can be bent by hand, almost as soft as TM metal. Some of their pistons are strong though. Some.

SHS is a Chinese lottery brand, but if you happen to get a good batch their parts are great for the price. I've never had problems with the strength of their pistons, only problems with fitment.

Also going to say that 16:1 gears and a Tienly 45 is going to easily put the OP around the 40 RPS mark. Unless he knows how to build high speed stuff this is going to end very poorly.

I'm not surprised by your report above - I've had similar issues with Lonex gears in the past. But have you reported these issues and other failures and provided supporting empirical evidence to your retailer so that the products can be revised and improved? Or are you reporting these issues now which may have occurred up to 2 years in the past with no evidence to support them?

I'm disappointed in the number of techs who continue to advocate for companies who do little to no QC, do not take feedback, make unnecessary design changes without validating measurements - leading to the scrapping of entire batches of parts - and producing products which are only "good for the price". Continuing to patronize these manufacturers and the retailers who stock them really is doing a disservice to the aftermarket parts world. Failure to report issues to your retailer that DO offer after-sales support also falls into that category of disservice.

I'm picking on only one company here you can easily generalize. How many times do you have to break an SHS product before you can draw a conclusion about their apparent lack of consistency and quality? And what exactly is that pricepoint where the grief and worry associated with installing a newer batch of SHS product is somehow justified? I see the argument all the time of "SHS makes good enough <insert part here> because this generation/batch works really well for me" and then ergo it seems like the company as a whole must have turned over a new leaf. On the other hand, if a more reputable company who sells items with a higher pricepoint pushes out a new batch of product 2 years ago which does not live up to expectation in specific applications (namely high-power or high-cyclic-rate, which by-the-way corresponds to quite literally 1% of all airsoft builds on the field), then suddenly a generalization is made that basically all past and future iterations of the company's product is suddenly sub-par.

Am I missing something here? Is a particular part that's half the cost but requires twice the time to install somehow more worthwhile? Or is it about being a hobbyist where you must expend hours on a part to either get it to work or improve it 10% that gives some form of die-hard validation? Does it have to do with this dick-waving?

[Stealth]

Originally Posted by EOD Steve

Am I missing something here? Is a particular part that's half the cost but requires twice the time to install somehow more worthwhile? Or is it about being a hobbyist where you must expend hours on a part to either get it to work or improve it 10% that gives some form of die-hard validation?

I think you hit the nail on the head with this paragraph.

I used to spend a hell lot of time salvaging parts and modifying them to fit my intended use. It was a great learning experience and it taught me all I needed to know about AEGs, but it also highlighted a bigger issue regarding valuation of time. Alot of gun docs will agree and share my resistance to touching Echo 1 and DBoys guns. Give me a VFC or Marui or PTS to work on. I know aftermarket parts are going to work well and I don't need to spend time messing around.

Pesto: on paper your parts list is amazing and like you said excels in efficiency and performance. Sadly 40+RPS brings about a whole list of further issues. How much time is spent debugging air leaks? Feeding issues? Improving reliability? At those speeds any jam is a catastrophic failure. The introduction of bearings may net you a few more RPS, but you've added another catastrophic failure point. Assuming the RA piston holds up, in a jam something has to give, so bye bye gears. Your BTC over amp detection circuit may save you, but from experience you're going to spend more time having to fix things. Time is money.

Not sure how much money you would charge a client to build this gun, but I know I would be married to that gun for a hell long time.

[warplane95]

Originally Posted by EOD Steve

Has this turned into another dick-waving competition?

Keep this thread on-topic and relevant to the experience-level of the OP. Most guys actively participating in this thread have been tech'ing for years (some who tech 8+ hours a day) and fail to recognize that the average ability/skill level of guys like OP are minimal to low. Think back to the first time you ever opened a V2 box, now start there. I feel like most of these "what upgrade parts are good? What is a good parts list" type threads degrade into tech showcases where super high-end parts lists, niche mods and difficult to modify/difficult to find parts are flaunted with little to no regard for the actual context of the thread.

OP is looking for a simple ready-to-go parts list of stuff he can assemble simply without having to mod or worry about failures or bad batches of parts.

, nothing to add.

I never opened a gearbox? who care? haha. If I want to repair thing by myself, I need to start somewhere

[warplane95]

Originally Posted by Hectic

Lonex pom piston head
sorbo pad
lonex red piston, swiss cheesed moderately
16:1 gears
lonex gearbox shell (tho im not sure of fit in a vfc so maybe just stick with the stock one, polish it and radius it)
Bearing spring guide
m120 spring
good 11.1v 20c+ battery
lonex motor red or orange
mosfet (i use merf, but there are beter ones. Merf is prety easy to install. Both red motor leads to one trigger contact and one signal wire to the other.)
Good wires if tye stock ones are crap, my vfc 417 had nice wires.
deans plugs
good shim job

this is the build I prefer. why? he have a VFC. All the parts are easily available in Canada, and lonex look like a good compagny.

[Hectic]

I think i mentioned but the lonex piston had to be slightly shaved down to work in my 417 (the gearbox is a little slmmer so the piston would get hung up at the rear of the gearbox)
There is a video of a guy fitting a piston into a 417, i will find the link for you.
Edit for link
http://youtu.be/jAM5F24K5k8
thats what i did, with a file, and shaved of another tooth to correct the AOE as i used a sorbo budy kit

[ThunderCactus]

Originally Posted by Stealth

I used to spend a hell lot of time salvaging parts and modifying them to fit my intended use. It was a great learning experience and it taught me all I needed to know about AEGs, but it also highlighted a bigger issue regarding valuation of time. Alot of gun docs will agree and share my resistance to touching Echo 1 and DBoys guns. Give me a VFC or Marui or PTS to work on. I know aftermarket parts are going to work well and I don't need to spend time messing around.

To which I said "FUCK THIS GARBAGE IM BUYING A GODDAMN PTW"
And then I bought a ptw.
And then somebody brought me an AEG to fix. You know those mish-mash random part guns that are like a noob's first guntech project and they totally fucked it up? All the pins are worn out, screws are missing, wrong parts all over the place, the wirings torn to shit, and the mechbox looks like a cross between a JG, both elephant, ACM and a walmart gun? Yeah that gun.
I went through it and said "FUCK THIS GARBAGE, IM NOT WORKING ON AEGS ANYMORE"

And I never feel bad about dropping $400 on a motor.
Because I drop $400 on a motor and it saves me all the goddamn frustration and annoyance and downtime of getting a stupid fucking lonex piston to fit in an SRC mechbox.

[Azathoth]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

To which I said "FUCK THIS GARBAGE IM BUYING A GODDAMN PTW"
And then I bought a ptw.
And then somebody brought me an AEG to fix. You know those mish-mash random part guns that are like a noob's first guntech project and they totally fucked it up? All the pins are worn out, screws are missing, wrong parts all over the place, the wirings torn to shit, and the mechbox looks like a cross between a JG, both elephant, ACM and a walmart gun? Yeah that gun.
I went through it and said "FUCK THIS GARBAGE, IM NOT WORKING ON AEGS ANYMORE"

And I never feel bad about dropping $400 on a motor.
Because I drop $400 on a motor and it saves me all the goddamn frustration and annoyance and downtime of getting a stupid fucking lonex piston to fit in an SRC mechbox.

This was me 2010... You know when you get a GLAD white kitchen garbage bag filled with parts from 5 different brand guns that some douchenozzle sold to the poor sucker as a "NEW Tokyo Marui" and it fell apart and he tried to fix it from youtube and forums posts.

I don't even want to touch "stonage airsoft" anymore unless i'm building a 750fps 50rps face shooter, or a 900fps+ bolt action, and even then the fun and excitement from finishing these builds has pretty much gone.



Stealth, EOD STEVE,

You are right a 14.8v DSG setup isn't a drag and drop easily purchased parts list. Do they still make FTKs? Because that sounds like the best solution.