Looking for a good budget starter pistol

[ShelledPants]

My first gun (ever) was a KJW M9, and it was such a pain in the ass coming from no experience. Issues with them are poorly documented and the fixes can be daunting.

All beginners we point in the same direction: TM/KJW 1911.

They are so easy to strip (and I mean, to the bone), tonnes of replacement parts, and you can find 50000 youtube videos holding your hand the whole time.

M9's are large. They are a bigger gun than most think without handling it. It doesn't "dwarf" a 1911, but as mentioned above, the grip is large. The safety is a pain in the ass under pressure. Without a decocker, you're basically stuck with two options, Carry Condition 1 (Round in the chamber, hammer back, safety on) and have to fumble with the safety on the draw, or condition 3 (empty chamber, hammer down) with the safety off and just draw, rack the slide and fire, ignoring the safety altogether.

1911's are a solid choice. Glocks a close second. I fucking hate stripping Glocks past a field strip, the hammer system is a fucking Rubik's cube. Same with P226's. Glocks are great point and shoot weapons, and pretty hard to break. KJW and TM make nice ones.

EDIT: KJW 1911's (Les Baer specifically) are some of the nicest C02 pistols on the market. I just read your bit about playing in colder months.

[Cliffradical]

This thread has great posts. Solid fence here.

The point about Airsoft Berettas (but maybe not the KSC/ KWA with it's functional decocker) is a good one. The annoying things about them are totally tolerable if you love Berettas, but sour or inefficient if you don't.

On that note, my suggestion would be to get a hold of these things in store or at a game and buy the one that feels most comfortable to you. Any one of these platforms can work for you, but you will definitely like one kind more than any other.
You may even find that you love the way one gun looks more than the others but it feels like shit in your hand!

Berettas are my gun. I've learned to overcome the quirks in handling them because it's my jam.
1911s are also my jam, but I have to break my grip or use two hands to operate the controls, which is a problem for me.
Glocks are great but I don't point them naturally and they look like an inbred Pug.
Sigs are the best platform for me in terms of usage, but I'm not in love with their looks. USPs are a girl in a BMW and she is a model and I own the car and we are in love and we are married... but I haven't bought one yet.

You could be completely different!

[FirestormX]

Originally Posted by ShelledPants

My first gun (ever) was a KJW M9, and it was such a pain in the ass coming from no experience. Issues with them are poorly documented and the fixes can be daunting.

I got into airsoft at a later point, and I was able to find a fair bit of information about the KJW M9 if I recall correctly. Especially since it's mostly a TM clone with a hop up, I was able to find a lot based on the TM stuff.

Speaking of which, I should point out that the M9 was one of the first GBB pistols that TM produced, and it didn't even have a hop up. The original TM M9 isn't that great, and the KJW is supposedly an improvement (never owned an original TM M9 for a personal comparison, though), and does gave a hopup. However, TM came out with an M9A1 a few years ago, offers some improvement. Most notably a hop up and a functional decocker.

So if you do grab a KJW M9, and you're looking around for information on it and/or its TM parent, be aware that there's two versions of the TM M9 out there. As far as I know, KJW has not made a version based on the M9A1 (new one) from TM.

Originally Posted by ShelledPants

The safety is a pain in the ass under pressure. Without a decocker, you're basically stuck with two options[...]

I fuckin' hate that M9 safety. I hate 1911 slide releases too, since I can't reach them, but at least you can power stroke it if you're releasing the slide...Doesn't help much if you want to lock the slide though.

When you're playing airsoft, you'll probably be playing with gloves (probably mechanix). I find that the M9 safety is no problem for me if I don't have gloves, but as soon as I have gloves on, it's a pain...Even with hours and hours of practicing to manipulate the safety. Your thumbs may be better than mine, though.

If you already own gloves for airsoft, I'd suggest trying out the guns with them on as well. The feel changes when you've got them on.

As for the decocker, the KWA has it, and the TM M9A1 (the new model) has it. I think that both WE and KJW are based on the old TM model, and have not been updated to have a functional decocker when put into safe.

[Datawraith]

My first sidearm was a KJW M9 too. It was okay, but it recently started eating nozzle return springs, so I just run it without them with no real problems so far. Be advised though; M9s are BIG guns. They're long and have big fat grips. They point beautifully once you get used to them though. The safety is a bit of a PITA.

I currently run a TM P226. Absolutely awesome design. All the controls are easy to manipulate with one hand, and you have the option of getting the classic grip or the E2 grip. Also points great and is easy to adapt from the M9.

Personally, I hate Glocks, as they point all whacked up for me. I hold them straight, and the barrel is angled towards the floor; not good. 1911's have that annoying backstrap safety and the grips are slightly too thin for my liking.

Go to a store and try out all the different patterns and identify which ones point the most natural and feel the most comfortable.

[wind_comm]

you all have completely nailed it.

my kj-based hicapa build has all 1 handed controls (which cost a pretty penny), and my single stack is a pain in the ass and doesn't get through a short-loaded long mag. I have a knockoff hogue grip on my single stack, and it's the only one I've found comfortable, but at which point I might as well be using a double stack, it's so big. (and it completely nullifies the point of a single stack). I've seen and handled some of the 4-digit steel custom/high end jobs and sorta gone "meh".

glocks are only ok for me. having spent over 4 digits on my TM 17 build, I can only shrug and go "ehhhh". and even after having touched literally every little fiddly bit, I still have no idea how the hell to reassemble one.

USP's are all sorts of boner-inducing for me. the sights line up SO SO SO DAMN GOOD. points well. sooooooo good looking. and you get to constantly yell "I'M JACK BAUER!". doesn't matter that the grip is uncomfortable and the mag release gets stuck on my middle finger unless I break off the trigger fully. haven't got around to getting one

Sigs are effing brilliant. they only require one upgrade part (the knocker/striker) and you're set for life. the trigger is nothing special, and I'd kill for a slide that says 227/.45 acp on it. but there's a reason I rotate through my other pistols while still always having the Sig on my belt. the 228/229 is a hair short and pinky-pinching on reloads, despite not actually being much smaller, but if it floats your boat.

I want an XDM and/or PX4 hard, but I spent all my damn money on that glock.

as previously stated, m9's are effing large. hop up is a pain to adjust on the kj but otherwise every one I've handled is great. the kwa/ksc ones will drop a round if you release the mag before empty, but if you can live with it, I've only heard praise.

but yes, go hold one. or several. or all. go to a game and tell people this is what you're doing, and they'll probably let you try theirs. only you and your hands can tell which one is best for you.

my brother-in-law's sister's husband (the hell do I refer to my sister's husband's family? white people.) has seriously near-shaq sized hands. my palms are the same size as his, but my fingers are like a whole knuckle shorter. I don't really fit into most gloves that well. point of the story? most comfortable pistol I've ever held is a Sig 2022, but short of a japan-only plastic jobber, there isn't one available. I've handled and fired a TM desert eagle, TM 5-7, KWA mk23, hi-capas, without any problems that I wouldn't be able to overcome (or aftermarket-parts my way out of). M9's give me more problems than those combined, and yet my favourite, comfort-wise, is a pinky-pincher compact 2022.

tl;dr: comfort doesn't make a lick of sense between two different people. try some different things out, and go from there.
(there was a consignment GBBR M4 here in calgary that had the fire selector shaved down to seriously a couple mm protrusion from the body. nobody at 007 could figure out the eff why the guy couldn't live with a regular M4 selector. he said it was uncomforable with gloves. everybody made the stink face.)

[CrazyEli]

Originally Posted by FirestormX

Haha, the one line response to a wall of text.

KJW's M9 models are generally solid and inexpensive (relatively speaking), so it's not a bad choice.
A lot of people don't like how large the M9 is (especially the grip), or dislike the take down. So if you're able to, make sure you compare the feel of several different models against the M9 before you buy it. If you have access to a walk in store that lets you hold the models, definitely try it.

The M9A1 comes with a lower rail, which can make holsters difficult to find. For example, if I recall correctly, Blackhawk only made a level 3 retention holster for the Beretta 92A1, which may be too much of an encumbrance on your draw.

Sorry about that. I was at school while writing that out! Im headed out today to try the guns and see how they feel in my hand. Great information in this thread so far

[CrazyEli]

My local store has the KJW 1911, M9A1, and Sig Sauer P226 (all from KJW) for around the same price. They all feel comfortable, but the M9 is a little bulky for my hand. By reading through the thread it seems they all have their pro's and con's, so is it wise to make the decision just from comfort?

[FirestormX]

No worries about the one liner, haha. I'm very much used to it. At least you acknowledge it.

In the general world of pistols, you wouldn't base the decision solely on comfort. But now that you've narrowed it down to 3 solid models from KJW, comfort and ease of controls should be your biggest concern. If they feel good in your hands, try and play with the controls. Pull the trigger, manipulate the safety, use the slide release to lock the slide back, point the gun at a target and make sure that the sights line up with where you comfortably feel you were trying to aim at. Go for whichever one feels nice. As I mentioned above, I can't reach the 1911 slide release, so a 1911 would be at the bottom of my own list. Or, like Datawraith mentioned, you might notice that because of the angle of the pistol's grips, that the gun doesn't aim where you think you're pointing (in Datawraith's case, when he points a glock in a way that he feels natural, the glock's grip is sloped so that it's pointing lower than he wanted).

If the M9 is too big for you, then you ought to avoid it. The size is a complaint from a lot of people, and you may become the next person to join those complaining. Keep in mind that a P226 has a double stack mag, while the 1911 has a single stack mag. That's going to affect how many shots you can get out of your magazine before you run out of gas. A stock 1911 running on propane (green gas) may not be able to fire every BB in the mag before running out of gas.

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by CrazyEli

My local store has the KJW 1911, M9A1, and Sig Sauer P226 (all from KJW) for around the same price. They all feel comfortable, but the M9 is a little bulky for my hand. By reading through the thread it seems they all have their pro's and con's, so is it wise to make the decision just from comfort?

In the end, a piece is a piece, it shoots.

It's effectiveness is solely in the hands of the user. Each is different. Each has quirks. You'll end up learning them over time. Starting with a comfortable gun is a the best start.

Being able to manipulate all of the controls with one hand is extremely important. Being able to do it without breaking grip is a bonus.

I've shot a lot of pistols (real and airsoft) and few truly feel comfortable. (Looking at you, HK 45)

Work with what you've got, and be thankful you're not eyeing a TT33.

Fuck those things.

[Cliffradical]

Friend of mine:
"These things are so cheap, even for Canada. Why wouldn't you get one?"
-Buys TT33
-RAGING slide bite
"Oh."

[Latincanuck]

I currently have the kjw 1911 which for the price is a great light weight hard hitting (compared to my kwa M93R). Easy to strip and shoots very well, not as tight grouping as i like. My kwa M93R which i love, shoot great, tight grouping even in brust mode or full auto but heavy as hell compared to most other pistols, plus more pricer and a bit more harder to take apart/put together (especially the spring damn thing has flown off more than a few times when putting to all back together) and bulkier. You need to find a pistol that works for you, if your distributor allows it, shoot it a few times to see how it feels.

[BioRage]

Hmm some good info here too, if I was going to role CO2 again, i'd go for the les baer, but single stack mags would fall out of my tacos .

KJW P09 Duty was really fun on co2!

[Cliffradical]

Buy new pouches! Single stack+ real cap tryhard shit rocks.

[CrazyEli]

Small update. Just purchased the KJW M1911 today and absolutely love it. Has a wicked shot and the blowback is awesome. Thanks for all the advice guys!

[CrazyEli]

Quick question: lets say I fire a few rounds using co2, when im done should I remove the co2 canister or leave it in the mag until its empty?