FAQ for Tokyo Marui Hi-Capa, 2011, 1911, MEU & Detonics type variants

[Wepeel]

Out of curiosity, how does the 1911 new frame increase the kick?

[ILLusion]

The monolithic rails throughout helps a lot with that. The original design of the Marui parts results in uneven movement of the slide at high speed, especially if the rails were not aligned properly. Because these rails are precision milled in a single rail (rather than as separate rail sections), the movement is more predictable. Also, because of the accuracy of milling, we're able to take fitment up to precision levels, where both the left and right rail are much more consistent with each other, and the front is just as precise as the back.

Lastly, the precision of the machining allows us to bring the slide closer down to the magazine's gas release gasket... and KEEPS it there, thus, creating a better seal between the nozzle and the magazine.

[jordan7831]

Wow thanks for all the insight Illusion! This is why you are the 1911 guru around here, and its even better that you take the time to share your wealth of knowledge with us.

Thanks!

[e-luder]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

The monolithic rails throughout helps a lot with that. The original design of the Marui parts results in uneven movement of the slide at high speed, especially if the rails were not aligned properly. Because these rails are precision milled in a single rail (rather than as separate rail sections), the movement is more predictable. Also, because of the accuracy of milling, we're able to take fitment up to precision levels, where both the left and right rail are much more consistent with each other, and the front is just as precise as the back.

Lastly, the precision of the machining allows us to bring the slide closer down to the magazine's gas release gasket... and KEEPS it there, thus, creating a better seal between the nozzle and the magazine.

Wouldn't this be only 90% of the work?
I think for one to achieve the best results, both precision machining has to be done to both the slide rails on the frame and the slide guide rails on the slide (I don't know what to call them).

...or at least match the precision measurements or close to.

I mean, don't get me wrong Brian, I'm sure the monolithic rails are very very very choice, but if you pair it with a crappy slide like a Guarder slide that's plagued with tolerance issues, it would still result in poor slide to frame fitment, no?

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by e-luder

Wouldn't this be only 90% of the work?
I think for one to achieve the best results, both precision machining has to be done to both the slide rails on the frame and the slide guide rails on the slide (I don't know what to call them).

...or at least match the precision measurements or close to.

Yes, absolutely. The Nova kits that these were tested on, are all CNC machined aircraft aluminum as well. Of all the 1911 kits that exist out there, Nova is still considered, in my humble opinion, to be the best metal body kit that exists on the market for Tokyo Marui 1911 pistols at this time. It's the consistency in their product, that made it easy to develop a product that fit with no headaches.

Originally Posted by e-luder

I mean, don't get me wrong Brian, I'm sure the monolithic rails are very very very choice, but if you pair it with a crappy slide like a Guarder slide that's plagued with tolerance issues, it would still result in poor slide to frame fitment, no?

Most definitely. But if you're dropping this kind of coin on a receiver insert upgrade ($157), you're not going to be matching it up with a low tier metal kit... it's like putting $5000 rims on your Corolla or your Minivan....

... actually, I've seen people do that. Chrome spinners, too. I guess whatever floats your boat... LOL


For what it's worth, the insert was designed not specifically for Nova kit users. Their receiver was just a platform, since we didn't have a production-ready version of our own. This was designed more for highly customized performance 1911's, and the slide that was tested fully on this, was ILLusion Kinetics slides.

Example of one such sample build:

[JDoorn]

^ fucking GORGEOUS!!!

[jordan7831]

So I did some measuring with my calipers and digital scale. I am measuring the frame rails at the back of the gun for their overall width, and measuring the inside dimensions of the slide where the slide rides on the frame.

Here are some weights and frame dimensions of various 1911s I have access to. Now these guns have various upgrades and steel parts so the wight section is not as applicable. But the slide and frame dimensions should give some insight to the tolerances.

Sizes are in MM and weight is in grams.

[ILLusion]

It might help if you tell us where it is exactly that you're measuring... lol

[jordan7831]

Haha thanks. I edited the post. The info probably doenst help. But hopefully gives some insight on these guns.

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by jordan7831

Haha thanks. I edited the post. The info probably doenst help. But hopefully gives some insight on these guns.

Nice. So based on your measurements, it looks like the TM has the least difference (tightest tolerance), which means much less wobble. This is not surprising, but it's good to see quantitative results.

[Slono]

What other 1911 goodies do you have? This is not good for my bank account... I thought I was done with airsoft until a month ago...

[ILLusion]

You don't get done with airsoft, until airsoft is done with YOU! LOL.

Hmm.. what other 1911 goodies do I have... a lot. LOL. I just got a big shipment of stuff in this week, and I'm still doing inventory on it. It's a hard question to answer... you might as well be asking an automotive parts store what car parts they have. LOL. Let's just say I have more than enough parts here to build plenty of 1911's from scratch.

[Slono]

Awesome.

Oh, you were right about the infinity slide as well. I stuck it on a nova 1911 kit and it slid on without an issue. Ever since my problem with the Kimber Warrior kit I've had a lot less patience with having to "fix" things that should fit out of the box lol! I'll have to try what you suggested with the stainless hi capa when I have more time. For now the 1911s have once again caught my eye.

Edit: is there a difference in performance between the 1911 hop up units and the hi capa hop up units (entire unit).

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by Slono

Awesome.

Oh, you were right about the infinity slide as well. I stuck it on a nova 1911 kit and it slid on without an issue. Ever since my problem with the Kimber Warrior kit I've had a lot less patience with having to "fix" things that should fit out of the box lol! I'll have to try what you suggested with the stainless hi capa when I have more time. For now the 1911s have once again caught my eye.

And therein, lies the fallacy in the belief that this stuff should go together like a Lego kit. It can't happen. It won't ever happen. There are many factors involved on why this would never happen, from a manufacturing level, to production, to QA, to corporate business decision, and I could go on a 10,000 word rant on WHY this could never happen in ANY industry. It is the sole reason why industry standards exist for some things, and why 3rd party component suppliers can produce a similar part for a fraction of the cost of an OEM component.

Even if you took a handful of parts right off a Tokyo Marui production line, there is NO guarantee that they will fit together, even though they are all the same brand, same model, and possibly even from the exact same production batch. It's why the modern assembly line, testing lines, and quality assurance exists... But... I digress. I won't go in to much more detail of that.

It is this exact fallacy, that leads many airsofters to believe that they can just buy a few ILLusion Kinetics parts, slap them together, and sell that gun as an "ILLusion Kinetics Custom Gun". It's not. And this results in the numerous PM's I get every day, from guys who say they bought a custom built gun off the ASC Classifieds, but when they got it in their hands, they were very underwhelmed with the performance, and wanted to know if I could help them fix it.

It's the exact same cause that lead me to end up with that Warrior kit from you. LOL.

But basically, if you want something to work right out of the box... buy a pre-assembled gun from a reputable manufacturer/builder. End of story.

Originally Posted by Slono

Edit: is there a difference in performance between the 1911 hop up units and the hi capa hop up units (entire unit).

None whatsoever. Except for the stem to hold the spring guide in place, the rest of the hop up unit is exactly the same.

[Slono]

Yup. I've been on both ends of the market so I can relate. I may want one of those IK inner frames for the 1911 from you. It will depend on whether or not I can get rid of some of my hi capas.