Spring Upgrade

[Squidi]

Hello,

I have a Classic Army CA36C. I purchased an ICS M120 spring in order to get a few more fps for winter weather play. ( we couldn't feel the bb's through the layers of clothing! ). Anyway, I wouldn't be posting here if things went well, right? Let me also preface this with, I've never taken apart an airsoft gun before, so I might not get all of the part names correct.

I stripped my gun apart, took out the mech box, put in the longer ( much longer..are they supposed to be that much longer? ) spring. Put it partially back together and fired it. The piston cocks back, but does not actually fire.

I figured, hey, it's my first time and I didn't actually break anything. So I strip it back apart, ( spring under tension ----> sprong! ). I read on the internet about timing and shimming. The factory shim still appears to be fine. I strip it apart, put the factory spring back in, it works just fine. I put the huge and stiff M120 spring back in and it cocks the piston back but does not fire.


I do this about 6 times until I finally break the tappet plate during one of the dis-assemblies under main spring pressure. While my new tappet plates ( why order 1 when 2 is only double the price? ) on on the way. What am I doing wrong? It is behaving as if my battery is to weak, or the motor doesn't have enough power to compress the spring to the breakover point.

Did I order the wrong spring? ( and I if I did, what is the right one? )

Thanks,

Squidi

[six4]

Originally Posted by Squidi

Hello,

I have a Classic Army CA36C. I purchased an ICS M120 spring in order to get a few more fps for winter weather play. ( we couldn't feel the bb's through the layers of clothing! ). Anyway, I wouldn't be posting here if things went well, right? Let me also preface this with, I've never taken apart an airsoft gun before, so I might not get all of the part names correct.

I stripped my gun apart, took out the mech box, put in the longer ( much longer..are they supposed to be that much longer? ) spring. Put it partially back together and fired it. The piston cocks back, but does not actually fire.

I figured, hey, it's my first time and I didn't actually break anything. So I strip it back apart, ( spring under tension ----> sprong! ). I read on the internet about timing and shimming. The factory shim still appears to be fine. I strip it apart, put the factory spring back in, it works just fine. I put the huge and stiff M120 spring back in and it cocks the piston back but does not fire.


I do this about 6 times until I finally break the tappet plate during one of the dis-assemblies under main spring pressure. While my new tappet plates ( why order 1 when 2 is only double the price? ) on on the way. What am I doing wrong? It is behaving as if my battery is to weak, or the motor doesn't have enough power to compress the spring to the breakover point.

Did I order the wrong spring? ( and I if I did, what is the right one? )

Thanks,

Squidi

wow,,,where to start,,,,,i guess first off heavy springs and winter play do not mix well. suggest you put the stock spring back in and wait for better weather and do some research on your weapon. here,,see if this helps you out.

http://www.mechbox.com/site/the-mech...ade-video.html

http://www.mechbox.com/site/g36-upgr...bly-video.html

this tutorial also suggests that you replace the nylon bushings with quality metal ones,,like i said,,just put it back together for now and keep playing. you can always just lay down some more ammo if you are wearinf all those layers .once you have researched as much as you can and the weather lightens up,,by all means go ahead and upgrade.

[Squidi]

Thanks for the response!

I've watched that video on mechbox.com before I started. I probably would not have known where to start otherwise. My mechbox was "factory upgraded" to "all metal 7mm oily steel bushings". And now I can attest to the fact, they are indeed metal. The only plastic part in the mechbox is the piston, some trigger stuff and tappet plate. I am defiantly putting my stock spring back in after my new tappet plate arrives. I would like to know what would cause a gun to half-cycle ( pull the piston back and then freeze up, then the motor whines, and electronics get hot ).

Thanks!

Squidi

[MADDOG]

Your battery probably does not have enough juice to turn that spring, that would be my first guess. You would need a sub-c cell battery pack at 9.6v to get it going .

Originally Posted by Squidi

Thanks for the response!

I've watched that video on mechbox.com before I started. I probably would not have known where to start otherwise. My mechbox was "factory upgraded" to "all metal 7mm oily steel bushings". And now I can attest to the fact, they are indeed metal. The only plastic part in the mechbox is the piston, some trigger stuff and tappet plate. I am defiantly putting my stock spring back in after my new tappet plate arrives. I would like to know what would cause a gun to half-cycle ( pull the piston back and then freeze up, then the motor whines, and electronics get hot ).

Thanks!

Squidi

[Kos-Mos]

Originally Posted by MADDOG

Your battery probably does not have enough juice to turn that spring, that would be my first guess. You would need a sub-c cell battery pack at 9.6v to get it going .

I second that!

[Squidi]

Thanks for replies.

What about the electronics getting really hot ( and smelling a little )? Is that consistent with being undervolt for a spring?

Just for clarification, I believe your estimation of the problem. I am just fishing for some confirmation with all of the variables considered. I'm not being argumentative, and I appreciate the responses.

I do have a another minor follow up question. What spring could I upgrade too and keep my 8.4v battery? Or is the stock spring about all the tiny battery can handle?


Squidi

[Kos-Mos]

Yes your electric system will heat up a lot more if you can't push enought.

Overvoltage only does a little damage to electronics, when overcurrent is like a frag grenade...in a rock concert.

When you mechbox stall, your motor will drain an extreme amount of amps, which will canse all your electric system to heat up very fast.

Get a 9.6v 1400mAh Intellect battery, it should help a lot, but a softer spring is a good idea too.

Runing your gun on 9.6v won't do much damage, mostly will wear your motor a tiny bit faster (I mean maybe a few thousand round faster)

[Greylocks]

Your best bet would be to clarify where you live in your profile, then going to meet up with a local expert called a Gun Doctor. We have a list of those guys.

Go meet, then watch carefully as your gun is inspected properly.

[Squidi]

I got my nice shiny new tappet plate in and reassembled my gearbox with the stock spring ( as well as the M130 ). After some trial and error, it appears that either my battery or motor is simply not strong enough to compress the M130 spring. It still works great with the stock spring.

I'm sure everyone already knows this, but if you ever end up in the situation of having a partially compressed spring and your motor/battery not being able to turn it, it is not near as difficult as I expected to turn the gears with a small screwdriver until it fires. Which greatly simplifies trying to hold everything in place as you disassemble the gearbox. It is also a good way to jam a screwdriver into your hand and/or your gearbox.

Thanks for your help!

Squidi

[ThunderCactus]

its also a great way to strip every tooth on your gears.
theres a latch you need to open that will discharge your spring, this is why you take it to a gun tech.
i have the same problem when using my mini battery for testing my G3, you need a large battery or a 9.6v. Or your spring might just be way too powerful and you need torque up gears. My G3 cant pull back a systema M100 yet it shoots 370fps on its supposed "PDI 120".

[Greylocks]

The M120 is already a stiff spring, and depending on the gun really pushes the playing limits for most fields. The M130 is worse. Maintenance will cost you a fortune.

Where do you plan to use this in Canada?

[Squidi]

Originally Posted by Greylocks

The M120 is already a stiff spring, and depending on the gun really pushes the playing limits for most fields. The M130 is worse. Maintenance will cost you a fortune.

Where do you plan to use this in Canada?

I know this thread is ancient, I just wanted to add some detail in case it could help anybody in future.

I mistyped in my earlier post, there is only the M120, there was never an M130.

( all fps are with .20g bb's )

A friends gun I upgraded with the same M120 spiring ( ICS MP5 ) shoots 400-410 fps with an M120. It is very consistent, and the stock ICS moter has no trouble pulling it back with a large type 8.4v battery. That didn't seem excessive from what we have read. I've read some fields cut off at 350, and some at 400. Not that there is a field in the state i live in, but safety first.

My CA G36C currently has a 9.6v large type battery, and it still would not consistently fire with the M120 spring it. So I cut a few coils off ( 3-4 ) of that spring. It now chronos at 340-360 fps. I also installed a CA "bore-up" kit which consists of a new piston head and cylinder. So that should also slightly affect FPS. I mainly ordered it because if I was going to break apart my mech box to try that M120 spring again, even if I failed and ended up using the stock spring I wanted to have have accomplished something!

And as far as where in Canada? Well, no where near Canada! I just re-read the thread and I must have edited out that part where I graciously ask for help from this active and vibrant community despite not being in Canada. I very much appreciate the responses.

Squidi