Sniper Question

[Koolie]

I am new to Airsoft about 4 weeks in, and I have peaked an interest into sniping. I have read a bunch on these forums about it but 1 thing still is a bit foggy.

There is a sniper Cert that Sha do offers. This course sounds awesome and I will be attending it when the time and money allows. I will probably have a rifle before then but I am seeing a bit of things arise in this area. Some guns shoot 350-450 FPS. Others are 500 FPS (M700) and higher. Upgrades add more and so on. The question is simple. If I get a rifle that is higher than 450 FPS single bolt action will I be able to game it with out a certification?? IF I did get a certification, will this ensure I am able to game my rifle at the higher FPS's??

I know there is a ton of things that effect the FPS and such in a rifle, but in the outdoor setting the high FPS seems to get a better range in the windy settings.

On the side note, I am 30 yrs old. I have a ton of respect for players and the game. I am not looking to hurt anyone and would never take a shot that may injure someone. I have already take a lot of bb's in return for me just not taking that shot when the chance show but I know that my target wont be potentially seriously hurt because of it. I ask these questions so I don't waste a lot of money on something I cant use at all. I am still reading up and researching just more clarification and help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[ShelledPants]

Here's the deal.

Sniper certification: Some people like it, some people don't. It is a good intro if you're new to the sport, and gets you "certified" to shoot higher FPS rifles because you are taught to judge distance and ensured to shoot outside of your Minimum Engagement Distance (MED) that some games put in place. Since you are new to the sport, this is important to prevent players from crying too hard when you hit them.

That being said, I am not sniper qualified, but I've been in the sport 5 years. This doesn't make me king shit, and I can't run whatever FPS gun I want to run at a game.

YOU MUST FOLLOW GAME RULES.

If the posted FPS is 460fps for bolt actions, you can shoot a bolt action at that game under 460fps. If there is no fps limit (rare, but it happens), shoot whatever FPS you like.

Now here's the fun part.

FPS does not translate to distance. FPS + Heavy BB's + Tuned Gun + lots of time on the rifle translates to distance. You can do the other things before putting your gun over 400fps, this allows you to run the gun at every game, and get better shots on target, before you ever take the dive into sniper qualifications and shooting hotter.

If you have any questions, post up here and others (and myself) will chime in. Good to have you in the sport. (PS, come on down to TAC13, you're in Ontario, it's this weekend and will be a blast.)

EDIT: To directly answer your question. No, being qualified does not give you a free pass to shoot at higher FPS. Some games have stipulations in their rules that if you are qualified you may shoot hotter. Honestly, I haven't seen this rule in a effect at too many games, and you often just have to be vetted by game staff. This vetting will only come with experience and making friends. Many games cannot allow hot guns due to insurance regulations. Some don't want it, to provide an equal playing field. The most important rule is to strictly follow game rules, and to PM the game host with regards to hot guns. Honestly, if you're new, shoot under 400. You really won't feel much difference with the added 50 fps.

[Bellerophon]

Not every place/event uses the certification system, just check the field rules before you go. Note that a higher FPS is not utterly critical in sniping: you'll accomplish a lot more shooting <450 with good ammo and an upgraded barrel/hop up than you can with a stock gun shooting ~500.

Edit: Shelledpants answered much more comprehensively than I did, listen to him.

[Koolie]

Awesome!! Now I completely understand. I was looking at the M700 but honestly the 500 FPS detered me a bit. I do like the TM V10's but some are telling me to go gas and save my wrists cocking the heavier springs.

On the side note, I am always looking for new places to play. I am in Burlington and play at FR in Kitch as well as starting a new spot with the team in Brant.

Where is TAC13?? is this a weekly game?? Me and the gf have M4's at the moment and have a ton of fun running around with them and meeting new people.

[swatt13]

There are a few levels of sniper certification and from what I recall is each level allows you to advance chronologically in fps.
The standard fps is about 420
dmr is 450
Sniper is 475
Ba is 490

To reach those levels of certification you need to present a skills test and pass the applicable course. Sniper chic would be a good person to talk to regarding these or even thunder cactus.

As for performance, fps doesn't directly translate into performance. Bb weight, ballistic trajectory, air effeciency are vital factors. A 350 fps gun can shoot straight farther harder than a 400 fps Gun if the air seal and hop up are tuned better. The overall synergy and performance of the parts within your gun translate into the performance your looking for not soley the fps. Think of a nascar compared to a f1 car.

Damn sp beat me to it.

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by Koolie

Awesome!! Now I completely understand. I was looking at the M700 but honestly the 500 FPS detered me a bit. I do like the TM V10's but some are telling me to go gas and save my wrists cocking the heavier springs.

On the side note, I am always looking for new places to play. I am in Burlington and play at FR in Kitch as well as starting a new spot with the team in Brant.

Where is TAC13?? is this a weekly game?? Me and the gf have M4's at the moment and have a ton of fun running around with them and meeting new people.

http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=147410
TAC13 is a convention, not a game, once a year and full of awesome. It is held at the same facility as TTAC3, which hosts monthly CQB games or training.

Do NOT go gas sniper rifle.
Here's the reasoning:

When you fire a tuned spring gun, you will get a consistant FPS of (loosely) +/- 5 FPS and is not heavily dependent on weather at all (extreme cold will cause issues, like, -20C, because your O-Rings will freeze).

Gas guns, if the weather is 20C will shoot hotter than when it's 10C, and will fluctuate throughout the day depending on the whether, this makes predicting shots VERY hard. Also, upgrades and fixes for gas guns are rare and more complicated than almost any bolt action system. Gas also requires lubrication for seals, and that lubrication will end up in your barrel and hop up, effecting accuracy largely.

TM VSR10's (and clones) have the most parts available on the market, the downsides are that TM VSR10's are hard to find and expensive in canada (but still available!). Marushin APS2 (and because of compatibility, CA M24) have the second amount of upgrades available. Try not to think too much about upgrades at first... more... replacement parts when the stock ones fail (which they will).

[Hectic]

Yup 450 is fine and "upgrades add more" is a false statement the only uograde that will add significant fps is a spring.
Yes some other uogrades wilo net you 5 or 10 fps but the fps isnt the reason for upgrading. You change things like the spring guide and trigger sears and piston for durability.
You change things like the inner barrel hop up cylender head to increae shot to shot consistancey (the single most important thing in airsoft sniping).
As for the certification. Most of the oldschool guys who host will accept the certification and allow you to use your lvl2 or lvl3 certification limits 500 and 550 but there are other factors. As a new player they may not let you use above 450 even with certification. The field may not have space for safe mi.imum engagement distances so above 450 is out the window again.
If you wanna play as a sniper the first thing you need is a good sidearm. After that get a good base gun to upgrade (vsr10 l96 or aps2) stay away from gas stick with spring.
After getting the gun get a spring 400-450fps get a bearing spring guide get a hop up unit a good hop up rubber and a good inner barrel and stick all that stuff in to the rifle. Get a good scope to stick on the gun and build or buy a ghillie suit to stick on yourself and a wrap for your gun.
Last and probably should be first is buy some good bb's either 0.36 or 0.40 then sight in your rifle at a medium range say 150feet or so.
Then practice see where you have to aim on your good mildot or range estimating scope at all your ranges. Obviously at 150 feet it will be dead center and from there youll have to adjust for closer and further ranges.
Closer then 75 feet you should engage with your sidearm (but really you should never have to do this unless you messed up and blew your position and the enemy is closing in on you)
Once you know how to shoot you should learn how to move undetected and how to hide in plain site. Most of the learning is better done with an aeg then when you fuck up( and you will) youll be able to fight. Once your good at movement and concealment then your rdy to grab your bolt action and spend all day layin around in the mud looking for that one good kill.. Maybe if you even get one at each game.
I think that covers the baisics. Good luck welcom to airsoft.

[ThunderCactus]

+1 for the marui VSR-10
I ran mine at 380fps when I first started sniping as well. Due to the fields we had, being under 400 was a huge advantage since most of my shots were actually within 60ft, and having a silent rifle was extremely important.
That being said, even at 380 I still had incredible long range performance.
Another advantage was not needed a sidearm (had one anyway, loved it, used it lots), but if someone ambushes you, or your target is much closer than you thought, you can just slamfire your VSR. I got so good at close in slam firing that people with AEGs would try to run from me if they fell into my ambush lol
And the ONLY advantage to a gas rifle over a spring rifle, is the silence of the shot. But I had my VSR tuned so you couldn't hear the muzzle end from 10ft away, so the point is moot.
Spring bolt is also the single most reliable system you can run in the winter, so there's really no reason to not buy a spring bolt rifle lol

[Hectic]

This is not correct (maybe in alberta yall have different rules but here in ontario its like so.
350 for cqb
400 for outdoor AEG and sidearms. DMR or otherwise
450 for bolt action sniper rifles.
Lvl2 snipers 500fps pending host/field approval
Lvl3 550 same as above also note that most fields dont have tue space to allow 550 fps
Also note that some hosts will allow long time trusted players to use a hot AEG (450ish fps) that has been modded with a fet of somekind to have a delay between shots and a semi only mod to use it as a DMR rifle but that rarely happens.
Also note that using gas isnt recognized under the certification program as gas rifles can chrony 450 in the morning and 550 in the afternoon just due to heat and it is very easy to adjut the fps on alot of gas bolt actions so unless you are a verry trusted player gas will be restricted to 400 like everyone else.

Originally Posted by swatt13

There are a few levels of sniper certification and from what I recall is each level allows you to advance chronologically in fps.
The standard fps is about 420
dmr is 450
Sniper is 475
Ba is 490

To reach those levels of certification you need to present a skills test and pass the applicable course. Sniper chic would be a good person to talk to regarding these or even thunder cactus.

As for performance, fps doesn't directly translate into performance. Bb weight, ballistic trajectory, air effeciency are vital factors. A 350 fps gun can shoot straight farther harder than a 400 fps Gun if the air seal and hop up are tuned better. The overall synergy and performance of the parts within your gun translate into the performance your looking for not soley the fps. Think of a nascar compared to a f1 car.

Damn sp beat me to it.

[leth1337]

Hectic has the correct certification fps stages for ontario

[Rusty Lugnuts]

The certification program doesn't guarantee you a higher FPS limit. It's up to the game host/field owner. Nobody shoots over 450 Fps at games i run period

[Koolie]

This is all awesome information. I am taking everything in and now really thinking about deleting my book marked gas snipers. I loved the bolt VSR 10 I used. It was a great gun. It shot dead straight all the time with the wind effecting the bb only after 50ft + (It was crazy strong at times). With everything said I think the spring with reliable parts will be my way to go. I had the some people telling me more FPS is accurate. As I can see they know not to much about the actual art I will now rely more on the people here and real players with the rifles them selves.

I am thinking about the convention. I have looked at it and if I get the time I will be there. Mostly to meet people in the Airsoft community and see what is around. I love being a social moth (Butterfly is to feminine for me) Anyways thanks for all the information. If anyone can add anything else that would be of great help I will enjoy reading it.

AWESOME Community!!

[Hectic]

Well they higher the fps the more unstable the shot will become so technically higher fos is less accurate. A 0.20 becomes unstable around 375 380 so in a 400 fps rifle you run. 25 even 30 (thats what i run in all my aegs) in a 450 fps bolt action you run 36 or 40 if your hop up can handle it yes gour fps will go way down but the shot will become very stable AND your bb will cary far more energy over a much longer distance so at 250 or 300feet your target should still feel the bb hit them. Fps isnt why snipers want the certification it is for the enrgy we can put into a bb to have a greater effect at a longer range. I run my bolt action at 500fps (512 actually till i fit a sorbo pad and hopefully thatll bring me down by reducing the cylender volume a bit) i have a hop up that over hops 30's when its turned off. I run 36-43 bbs and have an effective range of 300feet plus that being said befor i messdd with the hop up and swapped the spring i was running the same gun with a worn out stock spring pushing 360fps i ran 30's in it and still had nearly 300ft of effective range. Only it was harder for folks to feel it and wind messed with the shots a bit more.