M4 RIS ICS or KWA

[hoopak]

Hi,
like in topic - which producers is better? I don't want do any upgrades in my gun, and very important for me is reliability. I saw a lot of opinions about ICM and KWA, the same number of positive as negative, so which is better in your opinion?

[Styrak]

They're two different types of guns. I would say the KWA is a better gun, but the ICS has a split mechbox and quick swap uppers to change FPS.

[Spike]

Kwa is better out-of-the-box. They're great if you just want a gun to pick up and go with (except maybe a spring swap, depending on where you get it).

Both manufacturers have a lot of proprietary parts.

Having worked on both models before, I say go KWA.

[ManateeMatt]

KWA proprietary parts are way easier to get IMO, just call up KWA tell them what part numbers you want, and they will ship them to you.

I also find their gearbox the easiest to work on as the trigger, the ARL, and spring guide don't try to shoot out as soon as you open the gearbox. Every other gearbox I have worked on seem to try to kill you as soon as you open them.

[FirestormX]

Originally Posted by ManateeMatt

Every other gearbox I have worked on seem to try to kill you as soon as you open them.

That's the part I enjoyed about my ICS M4 - I stripped a piston, and I just popped out the upper and replaced the piston.
I recently changed the spring on a regular V2, with a weird spring guide that wouldn't let me get a screwdriver very deep into it to hold the spring in place as I closed up the box, and I spent the night trying to catch flying gears every few minutes.

I've never owned a KWA, so I can't speak for its reliability, and honestly I haven't used my ICS M4 much either, but it's been fairly reliable.
With the M4, there's the extra care that needs to be taken when splitting your upper and lower receiver, because you need to use the forward assist to release the tension in your piston spring - and when you do that, you have to be careful about where the piston is. ICS has a quick diagram somewhere that shows you the different places the piston can stop in its travel after firing. If you fire it in semi, the piston will stop in a place that is safe to release the spring, but if you were firing in full auto, there's a 50% chance it will stop in a place that can cause damage if you release the tension.

So, if you end up getting an ICS, you should release the tension on the spring after every game, by firing two shots on semi, then pressing the forward assist.
If you want to split the receiver (take out one or both of the body pins), make sure you release the tension on the spring first.

I like my ICS, especially its split gearbox. But a lot of people seem to hate them, and I haven't put enough rounds through it to tell you how reliable it is.

[DustMagnet]

Originally Posted by hoopak

Hi,
like in topic - which producers is better? I don't want do any upgrades in my gun, and very important for me is reliability. I saw a lot of opinions about ICM and KWA, the same number of positive as negative, so which is better in your opinion?

Ok, if you want more opinions on the pile, for what it's worth...

I like the KWA. It's seems to be well built, but I've only gamed mine a few times so far. I would also concur that the mechbox did not try to kill me when I opened it. There does seem to be a lot of manufacturer and community support as well.

I was originally attracted to ICS based on the split mechbox design, but when I did my reading I got the impression that it could be problematic, so I went the other way. Again, this was all opinion and anecdotes, not quantifiable data. I don't own an ICS, so I can't give any first hand knowledgeable opinion on it.

That wasn't the "right" or "wrong" choice, it's just that at some point you have to pull the trigger on your selection - so to speak.

The cylinder swap for field/CQB switching is pretty cool if that's what you are going to do.

[porkinglot]

I have 75,000 rounds through my ICS M4 Sportline over 3 years. I open the gearbox weekly and thus far I have not replaced anything inside the gun from wear or tear. I accidentally broke my hop up and the trigger switch inside the mechbox. But thats because I tinker too much.

I can't speak for the KWA but I believe the ICS to be of very high quality. It came to me and shot just perfect out of the box, it was shimmed well. I give the shim job a 9/10 and it had a very nice light weight grease in the gears.

I use my ICS every weekend as it is my primary. I like it better then my Classic Army Mp5, my AK 249 and my King Arms thompson all of which are steel bodied. None are sport line models. (cept the A&K P.O.S.)
Right now if given the choice of the ICS and any other gun in my arsenal for a first gun, id still take the ICS sportline. Its durable, not too light and it feels sooooooooo smooth when you pull the trigger.

If you don't want to do any upgrades, I really have to suggest the ICS. Mine has been fantastic, and if I wouldnt have been so cheap years ago and got a steel bodied M4, it would have been the last gun I would ever NEED.

Note: Need, not Want.

my .5 cents.

[KenC]

You'll be better off with a metal cylinder head and metal piston head installed in either the KWA or the ICS. Last I know they both come with non metal cylinder head and piston head.

[Rabbit]

I like the part where no one said "What? you just joined the forums today and this is your first post? Are you 18 yet? Get age verified."

[FirestormX]

Originally Posted by KenC

You'll be better off with a metal cylinder head and metal piston head installed in either the KWA or the ICS. Last I know they both come with non metal cylinder head and piston head.

My cansoft ICS was like that (plastic). Never hurts to replace it.

Originally Posted by Rabbit

I like the part where no one said "What? you just joined the forums today and this is your first post? Are you 18 yet? Get age verified."

We don't have to come off as hostile and defensive people to EVERY newcomer who asks for an opinion.