Scratch building an SPR

[naminator]

I was reading Illusions Mk12 build from a number of years ago. He said he used a Pro-Win 7mm Mech box. I know they have been replaced by the 8mm version and from what I have read the 8mm is alot better.

I am looking for the Absolute Maximum performance out of this gun.

I know it is going to be a mod 1:

I am debating just buying a pre made Systema Revolution M130 mech box.

Or getting a G&P 8mm Mech Box Shell and putting all sorts of goodies into it.

Any Suggestions?


Also I am not bashing ICS in any way. I am just saying from what I have experienced first hand, the locals run G&P with a limited amount of ICS full Metal. There is only one ICS full metal gun that I have seen and the thing was almost painful to watch. I can't remember how many times that split mech box was opened at the field to check and test the gun. I have no experience with ICS but G&P seems to be pretty good.

[grantmac]

Originally Posted by naminator

I am concerned about the reliability of Gas Guns. A local had one and it gave him numerous problems that where never remedied. It may be something I consider down the line. A gas gun is definitely possible, but I don't think they make VN mags for them quite yet.

And with the PTW I don't think there are VN Mags either. Nothing against PTW but I am also worried about how sensitive the electronics are and how I would get the gun fixed in the case of damage.

Let me clarify my "No price limit" I was looking to keep it around the 2000$ mark or less. If it is more no problem, but spending 2000$ on a base gun that I basically want to tear apart is not in my best interests.

The PTW reliability issues have been solved.

As for a GBBR. It has lots of potential bonuses. The fact that it doesn't loose much speed when firing heavy ammo is probably the best reason.
The most reliable and consistent system is the TK/KJW system. A team mate of mine has had all 3 major systems and nothing else comes close for efficiency and consistency.
But that comes with the price of constantly being aware of how conditions will effect your gun. Not on a shot-to-shot basis but definitely from one day to the next.
Fortunately most GBBR systems have aftermarket parts which allow you to change velocity very easily.
There may be no VN mags for GBBRs, but I think you will find that going prone with the bipod gets old in a big hurry.

Here is a conversation that should be had whenever the idea of an SPR is brought-up:
Hop-up!

M4 hop-ups just flat-out stink. Leaky, inconsistent, wandering adjustments. They are pretty near the bottom of the heap.

For this reason alone I would say that you should avoid most types of AEG body.
The ICS have by far the best factory hop-up available.
Then you have the madbull aftermarket one (which I personally think is the best based-upon its adjustment mechanism) which fits most bodies.

Pretty much anything besides those two is a waste of time, although some argue for the Neo I think it's just a very well made version of the same old flawed design.

For GBBR hop-ups my experience has been that the KJW are again at the top of the pile for performance and adjustment. Easily better than all but the very best of AEG hop-ups (Ie: the Tackleberry which has to be seen to be believed).

So there you have my little treatise on the pitfalls of the airsoft SPR. I am personally getting around to building a KJW with a DMR upper, but its a future project.

-Grant

[Kos-Mos]

M friend had a custom rifle built from the ground-up. He went all out and invested a WHOLE LOT of cash in his rifle.

I then got a deal on an ICS M4A1... he bough it from me because it was working, every time.

At every event I am going since the past year or so, I have to open at least 2-3 M4s on the field because they break.

But

If you have an ICS rifle, and break a part, takes at MOST 15 minutes to fix. The split mechbox is THAT good. The hard part of a mechbox work is to be able to fit the gears, ARL, trigger and the whole spring and guide assembly WHILE closing the shell and keeping it all in the right place.

In an ICS rifle, you have to worry about the spring guide and spring. Then take your time to close the lower... nothing moves out of place because you are not forcing a 400 fps spring down the shell. And nothing springs out because you move the shell just a tad bit to fit the ARL in it's hole.

The reason why you might see a bunch of ICS guns broke-open on the field is that it is an easy fix. I think I am the only guy stupid enough to open a mechbox on a t-shirt in the woods, to change a stripped piston. Well if you have an ICS gun, what prevents you from buying a second upper mechbox and carry it in your gear? Takes what, 7 seconds top to swap. Breaking-open the gun lets you know in an instant what is the problem.

I am not bashing against any gun.
I am actually trying to convince you to get an ICS gun built-up. If the job is done properly, you will just be like me. I am not fond of M4s, but the only ones I will ever own is an ICS. They are just THAT good...

[naminator]

Once again. I don't have anything against ICS. Or Gas guns for that matter.

All I know is that ICS has a proprietary Mechbox that really doesn't like working with most receivers. I know it can be done, I am just concerned.

Yes I know that M4 Hop ups suck. I have a M4 and a G3 right now. I have owned MP5's, a Bolt Action and a variety of pistols.

Gas Guns I am concerned about consistency from day to day and the compatibility of aftermarket receivers.

This is why I am looking at a standard V2 Mechbox. Either G&P or Systema, or something better in a standard M4 Metal Receiver.

Because every body seems to think a different gun, ICS, or Gas Gun is a good Idea lets try this:

I am looking at a Systema Revolution M120 Mechbox complete build.

Alternatively I could buy all the components and put them into a 8mm G&P shell.

Which should I do.

As for externals who makes a good quality Mk12 Mod 1 Front set?

[Drake]

I'm not a fan of ICS either. My experience with ICS has just been more grief than joy.

The G&P and KA receivers are both nice; I'd recommend sticking to the same brand as the front end you'll be using, usually avoids having to deal with fitting issues.

Mechbox, pick up a decent shell and use the Modify smooth Modular gearsets. They do away with a lot of the headaches and make opening/closing the box a breeze. Make sure you get well matched piston head and cylinder etc if you're scratch building.

You may also want to try the Madbull hopup unit. I haven't had time to install mine yet, but considering the unreliability of M4/M16 hopups in general it seems like a good avenue to explore.

[Boyso]

+1 for the Madbull hopup.

Makes adjustment alot easier.

Also great if you want to add the LED tracer to it.

[grantmac]

Avoid the Systema Revo GB, way too much cost for the benefit.

Many people have raved about the G&P M120 mechbox and motors. Teaming them up with a G&P body and front end would probably make for a very trouble free build.

For me an SPR has to have the following:
Excellent hop-up
Consistency
Trigger response.

To that end I would recommend going with a Trigger Master and LiPo power on whatever build you do.

-Grant

[naminator]

Yah like I said. This is a dream of mine. So far I have narrowed down the parts list a bit.

G&P MK12 Mod 1 Front Set
G&P Metal Receiver (dont know which one yet)
Madbull Hop Up with the Tracer unit
Some Tight Bore (Need advice, probably 6.01mm from edgi)
Lipo Battery
A Crane Stock
A G&P M120 Mechbox, Preferably 8mm
I am looking at Helical Gears but don't know who to go with
G&P motor
Trigger Master with Sniper Mode


And whatever accessories I might need. Does that look like a good shopping list of internals? Or should I get something different? I know the G&P Front set is like 500-600 dollars from what I have seen on uncompany for the DX kit. The receiver I will be buying inside Canada as a custom order.

[Styrak]

Why do you need an extra set of gears if you're buying a complete mechbox?

[grantmac]

Originally Posted by naminator

Yah like I said. This is a dream of mine. So far I have narrowed down the parts list a bit.

G&P MK12 Mod 1 Front Set
G&P Metal Receiver (dont know which one yet)
Madbull Hop Up with the Tracer unit
Some Tight Bore (Need advice, probably 6.01mm from edgi)
Lipo Battery
A Crane Stock
A G&P M120 Mechbox, Preferably 8mm
I am looking at Helical Gears but don't know who to go with
G&P motor
Trigger Master with Sniper Mode


And whatever accessories I might need. Does that look like a good shopping list of internals? Or should I get something different? I know the G&P Front set is like 500-600 dollars from what I have seen on uncompany for the DX kit. The receiver I will be buying inside Canada as a custom order.

Do not pay $500-600 for a front-set. That is just unnecessary money for an item like that.
Although I usually recommend getting all matching parts, no front end is worth that kind of cash.

Save it and get a decent optic, far too many airsoft builds just shit the bed when it comes time for optics.

-Grant

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by Kos-Mos

M friend had a custom rifle built from the ground-up. He went all out and invested a WHOLE LOT of cash in his rifle.

I then got a deal on an ICS M4A1... he bough it from me because it was working, every time.

At every event I am going since the past year or so, I have to open at least 2-3 M4s on the field because they break.

But

If you have an ICS rifle, and break a part, takes at MOST 15 minutes to fix. The split mechbox is THAT good. The hard part of a mechbox work is to be able to fit the gears, ARL, trigger and the whole spring and guide assembly WHILE closing the shell and keeping it all in the right place.

In an ICS rifle, you have to worry about the spring guide and spring. Then take your time to close the lower... nothing moves out of place because you are not forcing a 400 fps spring down the shell. And nothing springs out because you move the shell just a tad bit to fit the ARL in it's hole.

The reason why you might see a bunch of ICS guns broke-open on the field is that it is an easy fix. I think I am the only guy stupid enough to open a mechbox on a t-shirt in the woods, to change a stripped piston. Well if you have an ICS gun, what prevents you from buying a second upper mechbox and carry it in your gear? Takes what, 7 seconds top to swap. Breaking-open the gun lets you know in an instant what is the problem.

I am not bashing against any gun.
I am actually trying to convince you to get an ICS gun built-up. If the job is done properly, you will just be like me. I am not fond of M4s, but the only ones I will ever own is an ICS. They are just THAT good...

ICS is lower in quality compared to G&G, G&P, CA and a few others but they are well priced for what you get. One major problem with ICS is compatability with aftermarket Products, they seem to be real hit and miss , more on the miss side of things from my findings. I know they make enhanced parts for there gun line up but the quality is low and some materials ill thought out (alloy piston heads? not a wise idea with a m120), as ive seen one of there drop in m120 uppers in an m4 shoot with no shot to shot consistancy what so ever. No lie's, First shot 510 fps following shot 250fps-ish and everwhere in between. Sorry if your looking to build a Custom SPR with a high level of performace I would not recomend going the ICS route. As for there hopup units, they are pretty good, but cant touch a promy neo strike chamber.

[Kos-Mos]

Originally Posted by BLACKWATER204

ICS is lower in quality compared to G&G, G&P, CA and a few others but they are well priced for what you get. One major problem with ICS is compatability with aftermarket Products, they seem to be real hit and miss , more on the miss side of things from my findings. I know they make enhanced parts for there gun line up but the quality is low and some materials ill thought out (alloy piston heads? not a wise idea with a m120), as ive seen one of there drop in m120 uppers in an m4 shoot with no shot to shot consistancy what so ever. No lie's, First shot 510 fps following shot 250fps-ish and everwhere in between. Sorry if your looking to build a Custom SPR with a high level of performace I would not recomend going the ICS route. As for there hopup units, they are pretty good, but cant touch a promy neo strike chamber.

Have you ever used a genuine ICS Metal? Not the crapsoft ones "Canadian Special"?

If the gun had issues, it was most likely because it was badly assembled.

And promy eno chamber is nice, but still quite behind the ICS hop-up chamber. Closest contestant is the new Madbull ones if you get a decent one (some have modling issues).

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by Kos-Mos

Have you ever used a genuine ICS Metal? Not the crapsoft ones "Canadian Special"?

If the gun had issues, it was most likely because it was badly assembled.

And promy eno chamber is nice, but still quite behind the ICS hop-up chamber. Closest contestant is the new Madbull ones if you get a decent one (some have modling issues).

I would never recomend madbull parts for hopup...anything, barrel or internals, if I were recomending parts for a high accuracy gun such as a custom SPR. Madbull externals are pretty good though imo.
I'm not trying to knock ICS either but, they don't have anywhere near the tight, consistant tolerences that Prometheus has, the ICS hopup is not in the same class as the promy. Sorry. If you're looking to drop a big spring in the SPR I would look into a high quality mechbox shell to handle the shit kicking its going to receive. Haynes CNC makes a great...amazing V2 shell with some very high quality ceramic bearings that will handle 70,000 rpm, high loads from big springs plus the shell is cnc'd to perfection so it will last a very long time. Mind you I don't think i've ever heard of one breaking. However that shell will not work with an ICS gun nor will other very high performing parts. The ICS route is a little limited for upgrading further than it's stock level of performace.