tokyo marui
 

tokyo marui. I been heard that this airsoft gun is worse thing to buy because they charge too much for the good. is this true????

Their gun is really worst because they are not copy. they actually spend much money on the research and development, that's why most of their are quite expensive compare to chinese clone.

For the massive produce won't cost much than the quality control and research and development product. That's why their gun are really worst and also we should give respect to them as well since they are the mother company who give birth to airsoft product that we mostly use nowadays.

KND

It's a matter of opinion.

When kept stock, Tokyo Marui guns have the most reliable internals. A stock TM will run for years without needing any work done to it.

Having said that, TM bodies are plastic and don't stand up to abuse well. If you're planning on replacing most of the internals, then spending the extra money on something like a Classic Army gun (though which also has excellent internals) might not be a bad idea. If you don't abuse your guns, don't mind a plastic body, and want a gun that will last a long time kept stock, than TM guns are great.

Then dont buy it...jeez some people, go buy a cheap gun and when it breaks in 500rds dont come crying to us that your cheap gun broke....what you pay for is what your gonna get....:banghead:

I'll only say this - I still own the first AEG I ever bought, which is a 10-year-old TM AK47 that I'd estimate has in excess of 150,000 rounds through it. It's never failed to fire, and never broken down.

if your going to upgrade a TM, plan to upgrade everything. Also, Systema is the most reliable =p
Or maybe real sword, but then again, I've never held one of those, let alone shoot one.

I'd actually say TM is more reliable than Systema and Realsword...

Then a new version Systema PTW? Seriously?? Oh man... I know that could be true for their M14s, P90s, and AK series, but surely not for their M16/M4 series.

Aslong as you don't upgrade them and abuse them.. then yea.. internally TM is the most reliable.

I'll agree that their armalite series is greatly lacking... But we've got CA, G&P and all those other companies to make up for it.

I can't vouch directly for or against Tokyo Marui, but my general understanding of their products is that buying from TM is like buying from Canadian Tire. It's cheap, it's strong, it's reliable, and it comes with lots of fun extras, but there's a chance, with every purchase, that it will just be crap and die before its time.

I know that TM weapons are easily upgraded with things like metal kits, internals and so forth. However, once you've shelled out the extra cash for the upgrades, the whole package costs as much as a higher-quality rifle would in the first place. So if you want a top-notch gun fast, you're better off trying something else, just to be sure.

But if you're looking for a long-term project, something to work on and play with, I don't think you can really go wrong with TM, especially as a starter AEG.

wtf are you talking about? TM is on the higher end of the spectrum with regards to price and initial quality, it is NOT cheap, and hardly comparable to buying from Canadian Tire.

TM are the best guns money can buy - in terms of reliability and quality.

If you're going to separate reliability and quality as two different notions (how well the gun is built internally/performs and how well it is built externally), then it's impossible for TM to score 'best' for quality. Most brands are externally superior brands to TM when talking about all but the most recent TM guns. The difference between other brands' wood, metal and fiber glass versus TM's mostly simple ABS plastic.

Apart from AR-15s, I try to get a TM gun when I have the option.

I wonder why there are still many TM fanboys that claim it out performs every other AEG out there...

Uh, because it does? FPS isn't the end all be all of airsoft goodness.

Yes but it doens't mean that fps is completely irrelevant... It still accounts for a huge porportion of the range of an AEG depending on the setup

No, it doesn't. Hop-up, mechbox consistency and fit tolerances make accuracy, FPS means fuck all.

Range... Basically right, to achieve the maximum range, the backspin effect has to keep the BB in level flight for as long as possible, and to do so, it doens't matter if you have a hop-up rubber with the grip of god, it just needs to spin the BB to a speed at which it can keep level flight... Then it's just simple logic that a faster object will fly further. Like a top spinning, too fast or too slow just screws it up.

IF FPS did mean fuck all, then it would mean that a sniper rifle with 280fps is just as good as one with a 450 fps spring

Still, hop-up > FPS in every way possible. High FPS actually makes the corealis effect harder to manage.

FPS is one way to convey the total picture that is kinetic energy.

Physics dictates that all else being equal, the more energy you can put into something, the more work it can do. In this case, if there's a significant difference in FPS between two otherwise identically equal guns firing identical ammunition in identical environment, the gun with the higher FPS will definitely have an advantage in shorter time-on-target (less lead needed against moving target), greater energy delivered to the target (to ensure the hit is felt or heard), and likely have an advantage of greater overall range as well.

So simply claiming that FPS doesn't matter really doesn't reflect the reality of the science involved. FPS isn't the most important factor, but it also sure isn't a non-factor.

higher fps means that the hop-up rubber just needs to have more grip, and have a less flexy hop-up nub, then it's just up to visual adjustment. Hop-up can only do so much to control and maintain BB flight. Then the spring has to provide the extra energy to continue the flight

I'm not saying that I encourage people to be 1337 500fps players, but the amount of energy a spring can put out does matter.

The increase in range is NOT directly proportional to the increase in FPS, i.e., if you double your FPS you will NOT double your range. Guns do not achieve longer ranges purely with higher velocities: all projectiles (airsoft or otherwise) are subject to ballistics. In order to be able to pull off anything remotely ballistic in airsoft, you need accuracy and shot-to-shot consistency. The extra 30 ft you get from higher velocities isn't making that big a difference -- not to mention that just because your shot can get out to a given range doesn't mean you can consistently hit a given target at that range.

There are stock TM guns that have no trouble keeping up with lightly upgraded guns.

It does matter but just ask stalker. He got way better and more consistent performance out of his CA M24(?) when it was firing like 350-380 (can't remember the exact velocity) than 450+. He claimed, IIRC, that he got better range and truer flight path.

Not all hop ups are the same though. Good hop up rubbers don't wear down easily. Good nubs are important too. And then the hop up unit itself has to be able to keep completely static and not shift the amount of hop from the force of the BB hitting the nub. TM's, from my experience, have a good hop up design and quality (some aftermarket ones are better, obviously). They keep their setting quite well. That is what matters. If your hop-up unit changes its setting after 100 shots, then all of a sudden your path is different.

True, higher FPS will drive the BB further, but what do you want, long range or long effective range?

If you're happy shooting a stock TM @ 280 fps, then it's probably the most reliable gun on the market. THey should last for years without needing anything but basic maintenance.

However, if you have any intentions of upgrading the internals for a higher velocity to make the gun competitive, then you're pretty much going to have to gut the gun and rebuild it from scratch or install an aftermarket reinforced mechbox.

So IMO, TM aren't worth the money. If you're mostly a collector looking to plink at home, they they're worth it. If you intend on gaming it, then I'd look elsewhere. You can get much better for about the same money.

I thought the initial arguement was about whether FPS increases range at all?

lol also, if you are a little bitter that you spent $700+ on a TM in the days of A&A only to find that the clones have surpassed the value of Marui in recent years then you can still cling to the belief that TM is the be all and end all in the AEG market ;)

R.I.P. Tokyo Marui

Not the end all be all, like I said I prefer my AR-15s to be CA, otherwise TM all the way.

P90
HiCapa
VSR-10

TM gbb's FTW yes, but AEG's not so much

TM has superior fit and finish, trades, material consistency, overall parts.

Sure, you get 280 out of the box, but 25$ for a spring and shims isn't too much to ask.

Enjoy your clones...

i will hehehe

Try putting a $25, 400 fps spring in your TM (at least a V2 box) and watch your gears shred, the end of the mechbox snap off, etc... Then let's see how much more money you need to sink into it to repair it.

Stock TM = da shiznit
Upgrading a TM = money pit.

My target for general use guns is sub 350, so yeah, 25$ of parts.

Each hop-up rubber has a sweet spot for FPS... if you can match or get close to that sweet spot, your range will increase.

Having good parts with high tolerances that mesh together perfectly... that's when you get the best results.

The key to long, consistent range.... is to know what you're doing (Speaking a multitude of Asian languages definitely wouldn't hurt either... There's so much info that isn't well known in Canada!!)

if you dont have a lot of cash atm and need something that will not fail on you, get TM. JG, while decent, has the ability to fail, as does CA (while they have gotten better, it is still a higher chance when compared to TM). if you dont mind upgrading a gun off the batt, get CA. that being said, if you are planning on getting an AR or more specifically, a G36, then ONLY get CA. IMHO, CA makes THE BEST G36 on the market. Apparently TMs New Type M4s are supposed to be much better and make a great upgradeable platform.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e4...t/DSCN3943.jpg

MY Original TM HK51 bought in back in 91 Just recently overhauled and refurbished inside an out. Before the TM basher comes out how many clones can survived almost 18 years of abuse/crazy springs mod etc?. I still have the original progear mechbox for this aeg aside from a cracked body back in 97 and a progear box upgrade in 99 this has been relatively a stock unit until now.

For your answer to your question, if you want a shoot without problem out of a box performance then I recommend either a TM or King Arms but if you want a riced up version then a CA or G&P or even one of teh mentioned clones like cyma or JG.

I still think zinc alloy is weak... same with nylon bushings. What is good in a TM is the quality control, R&D and fit and finish, although that isn't true in crunch's case...

My 10-year-old, never-failed-to-fire 150,000 round AK shoots 410 on it's original TM gears. There's no difference between v2 gears and v3 gears...

It's not all about parts. It's more about having a competent tech who understands the limitations of an AEG.

It all depends on what you want. If you want a nice properly trademarked gun, go for the Marui. I personally like Marui because of the true trademarks. Having said that, I am more of a purist and a collector. Classic Army offers guns with alloy and fibre bodies that are durable and competitive in price. Unfortunately, I would rather own a gun that says HK G36C, not CA36C. New CA guns have great internals as well, a far cry from earlier ones.
Take into consideration that Marui builds Airsoft guns that conform to Japanese law. They build Airsoft guns for Airsoft players in Japan. The guns must conform to laws that restrict what kind of muzzle energy is produced and limits what materials can used. Others can comment on how the internals of a Marui cannot withstand some upgrades, but remember, they were not produced to do so.

It would be nice if it were that simple.

The trouble with a spring upgrade in a TM is that it leads to you having to upgrade other parts to make up for effects of the new spring you installed. Any time you install a higher energy spring than the stock one, you've modified that TM design and that "precision balance" of everything is thrown off.

TM are designed for the Japanese market, where they have a strict fps limit (I believe it's about 320 fps). Their guns all shoot about 280 fps which is under their limit. You can boost their velocity to about that 310-320 fps by installing a bearing spring guide and tightbore barrel. That doesn't require a new spring that increases stress on the internals.

So if you want to get 350 fps, you also have to install metal bushings, which requires reshimming as well. And if you want to preserve your mechbox, a sorbo pad is a great idea as well.

While none of these upgrades are particularly expensive, it requires more than just a $25 spring to upgrade a Marui if you want to maintain its reliability and longevity.

Now that's mostly true of V2 gearboxes. V3 that are also quite popular tend to be a lot more robust. and the shell isn't prone to breakage. So generally, little more than a spring and metal bushings are required to upgrade it significantly without requiring other parts, although generally it's a good idea to install reinforced gears if going past the 360-ish fps mark...

In my opinion Tokyo Mauri make fine classy and reliable Airsoft Weapons.
But they are pricing themselves out of the market a little for a standard plastic bodied Airsoft Weapon.
The Tokyo Mauri Handguns are also becoming rather expensive, You can now buy a reasonable clone AEG for the same price as some of the Handguns.

The Airsoft Weapon market is now offering good - great quality reliable weapons at reasonable prices which come standard with metal bodies and a few extras such as on the King Arms & G&P Airsoft Weapons.

Then you have the clones, Someone else's copy of a Tokyo Mauri etc..
Some of the clones have sorted their shit out and are making reasonable quality weapons for the price you pay.
They still have some issues such as overtightening of the gearbox screws and over greasing the gearbox internals. (like pumping as much grease as they can into the gearbox for what reason I am unsure?)

My experience and personal preference is mainly with Tokyo Mauri & G&P M4 & M16 variants.

I have found that if you upgrade the spring in the V2 Gearbox you should upgrade the gears, piston and also upgrade to a reinforced gearbox.
This will give your Airsoft Weapon a longer life.
Failure to do so will result in chewed up gears, broken teeth on the piston and cracks in your gearbox front end and resulting in more $$$$$$$$$$ spent.

I meant it as a similie, regarding other products from CT, not airsoft.

I suppose overall quality is subjective, but I like to think of reliability and durability as paramount, even before performance, such as FPS. But again, that's just my opinion.

425FPS spring in my stock TM mechbox, all it got was a reshimming and a new metal non bearing spring guide. No shredding of gears or snapping of anything. Long story short, its a 4 year old version 2 and its the same original shell, its been opened a few times of maintenance, a few updagrade parts and spring changes over the years. However its ran faithfully from 280FPS all the way to 480FPS and now a days runs at 380FPS.

Now an 10.8V 8000Mah battery in a stock TM fired about about 350BBs before it shredded 6 teeth off the spur gear. Surprisingly enough the stock piston was fine.

People will continue to buy what they see value in or think that there is value in, regardless of brand. We all like what we like for a reason be it the idea of quality, low cost, FPS, body material composition or just whatever. Some people like Rock and Republic, other people like Gap, some people dont care and just want some pants.

Nice. On another note...anyone still play with stock guns? I have an M733 with a tightbore, polycarbonate piston, metal bushings and the original stock spring. She works great and is incredibly reliable. I like to keep things stock just in case I end up getting close to someone...even in outdoor games.

I wise old git once told me to upgrade the player before upgrading the gun.

Stock play teaches you many lessons.

I upgraded my CA til no stock internals remained, it still shoots around 300fps, whatever.

It's not to say that I haven't played with upgraded guns before, but after awhile I just found that anything over 350 fps (less BA's) weren't really necessary for me. Upgrade your internals all you want. We all have our own preferences to do our own thing; tha's your perogative. I'm not going to tell you that you shouldn't upgrade, and I don't expect attitude in return.

You replaced CA gears for XYT gears?? (assuming so from your signature...)

That's like... getting a CA AK47 and replacing the mechbox with a kraken one.

Waiting on modify smooth pre-shimmed thingys... Yeah the XYT is a bit of a letdown. But it holds up pretty decently, and the ratio, as far as I can tell by looking at the spin rates, isn't bad.

If you really want to have a great preforming gun you should try to stick with all one brand of upgrade parts... Mix-matching so many brands can cause tolerance issues.

=( but nothing from my G&P complete works anymore :X I checked the mesh between the piston and gears and it looks ok... Lol. I've kept portions of the mechbox the same brand, and different portions, a differnet brand.
It's got a G&P upper mechbox portion, the gears are all XYT, the wire and trigger set is G&P, and the electric stuff, the tappet and nozzle are modify. Lol, this is where I'm newb.

I will never buy TM as a gaming gun because it is simply made out of plastic and ive had many friends with plastic guns having cracked externals from accidents and high fps guns. But i will never say that a TM isnt worth your money because they are beautifully made and id prefer to have them on display and plinking rather than use them in a game. You can basically ruin the essence of the gun if you replace the internals. I prefer buying a clone and doing reliability upgrades for it for my games.