Solution to reduce cheating at indoor games
 

Solution to reduce cheating at indoor games

Hi all,

I had dinner with a friend today and the issue about cheating came up again.
It seemed to have ruined the day of a lot of honest players.
So I would like to propose the following for indoor CQB games.

Make every player wear a racing bib with unique number

racing bibs?
http://zombiesurvivaldash.com/race-bibs-and-chips/

- What track athletes were during events/competition
eg: bibnumbers.com
- they can be plates or very big stickers
- should be able to uniquely identify players during event
- mandatory to wear during game - if taken off, player is ejected from game

Logistics suggestion:
* indoor game organizers purchase these bibs in bulk
* every player pays an additional $1-2 to cover expense.

By wearing this numbers during a game, if will be very easy to identify
a cheater. A player who identifies a victim does not even need to confront the individual. He just forwards the # of the player to the organizer.

Operation:
Organizer keeps counts of complains.
We are all humans, so we can make mistakes.
As a result, submitted complaints for player "36" won't trigger anything
unless there are 2 or 3 (set by organizer).
If player "36" has multiple complaints from other players in a short
period of time, organizer will stop game and issue warning.
If player 36 receives another complaint, he will be booted off.
Player 36 can't even argue back to an individual, because there are 3
who filed a complaint :)

Advantages:
* easy to identify players during the game
* wearing numbers will make players more self conscious, and
hopefully adhere to the rules more

Disadvantages:
* you might not look too cool with numbers on front and back
But again, I personally don't care about looks.
I rather play an honest game.


Another suggestion:
Can we have CQB games where people don't wear vest or anything major
equipment on their chest? I would not mind games where players are wearing 1 T shirt only. Sometimes BB bounces off the rig, and target
does not feel anything (not meaning to cheat).

I have no words

At Xtreme Tactics in Winnipeg every player is issued a velcro patch number that has to be worn somewhere. Not exactly a racing bib, but it's been proven effective if not just useful.

What is this... speedball?

Fire for effect.

If that fails, try again!

Get your buddies in on the fun.

Why need a number, if you can see who you're shooting then you should be able to identify him and tell the Admin.

If you aren't sure what he/she looks like then you probably aren't hitting them.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...28566702_n.jpg
No.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...80773748_n.jpg
Oh HELL no.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.n...52208934_n.jpg
NO NO NO.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...39965136_n.jpg
To hell with that.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...77546447_n.jpg
Are you fucking with us?

If we start wearing those, why don't we just wear these while we're at it...

http://blog.bedlampaintball.co.uk/wp...-paintball.jpg
and
http://www.bestpaintballreviews.com/...reloading1.jpg

if you are 100% right about them not calling hits......see that thing by your thumb thats pointing to semi.....turn that to full auto....then see how long it takes them to call the hit :p or just know who you are playing with so you wont have to deal id say 90% of the time ive seen someone not call a hit...myself included they or myself just didnt feel it...again thats why you shoot a few extra just in case

Maybe he just plays in street clothes with a hi-cap?

And as for that last bit, double oh god.

We could also have indoor games with mandatory 500 FPS minimum, I'm sure that would make cheating a bit harder.

I suggest naked and the numbers are branded on.

Hey I do wear that some times. it's comfy for someone who plays speedball

But yeah I don't agree with the number idea you should be able to easily identify the person you are shooting at.

also if this was speedball yall would be complaining about cheating alot more.

Use a 249. They'll call it ;)

Guys, I'm not sure I trust this guy...

apparently he has Hacks... in... life!? o.0

IMO not calling hits seriously wrecks games -no question- So develop a group of players who you know call their hits and rent venues and have games by invitation only (no walk ons) The last 5 games that i have played at were exactly this and honourable and fun. Before that i almost quit airsoft.

Being a host, I would not even bother spending time and money on fucking cheaters.

You want a simpe solution ? Identify these players and ban them from your events.

Helmet camera and tracer rounds maybe???

switch to full auto and track your rounds till you hit something soft (under the arm or the back of the neck) if they still wont call it, have a word with game control

I dunno, I kinda like the number idea, it's only indoor CQB afterall, not like it's milsim anyway lol
Most people have distinguishing features, but a lot of noobs don't, big numbers might be a good way to keep track of people. Maybe just armbands or whatever.
I like the idea of keeping track of complainers though, I've known more than a few players that swear up and down people are cheating and they see BBs bouncing off their target, but upon further inspection it turns out they can't even see their BBs and they're all falling 15ft short lol
And not to brand people, but the guys at XT know there are certain groups of people that are quite prone to cheating, so those groups usually play together and anyone else that wants to join in is given plenty of warning about it.

clarification
 

1.
Please note that I specifically mentioned indoor CQB.
I did not say outdoors.

2
The friend I talked to went to Gibson on Sunday.
Apparently there were a group of players that were wearing very
similar looking uniforms.
If you are playing against a team of 20+ players all wearing very similar
stuff, it is indeed difficult to tell each apart. If you goto a venue with 30+ players and most don't know each other, pure honor system can be difficult. In small CQB venues with 10 people, I agree this is not necessary.

3.
350fps with 1 thin shirt on, is not equivalent as wearing thick clothes and
shooting 500 fps. I prefer responsible playing, not injuring each other.

Again, I am fully aware that the last point is controversial.


Another point for you to ponder:
Have to noticed that bank tellers have a badge with their name when doing client facing work? Have to noticed that some police wear badge numbers on their uniforms?
Have to ever thought how this could affect their behavior?

addition
 

Although the solution to turn full auto on and to shoot repeatedly seem to
work sometime, it does not always work. Apparently, it did not work past Sunday during the game.

I prefer not to waste ammo shooting full auto during an indoor game,
as I might be in a serious disadvantage when facing the next 2-3 players.

dumping a mag or two on full auto has always worked for us. works better when you do it with tracers and your buddies can join in. if it still doesn't get them to call their hits, we go in with 40mm's! people know better when the 40's come out :)

it's not wasting ammo if you let these clowns get away with it.

I admire your wanting to thwart cheating but I just don't feel this is the direction we need to take this sport in. What we need is to just stop being friendly to those that are cheaters and force them out with the power of uncomfortableness (not a real word apparently)

Sorry, my bad, allow me to bust out the MS-Paint once more with the same photos of people inside a building....

For me it depends where im playing but most of the fields i play at have zero tolerence. You cheat (not call hits, go full auto ect.)
You get the boot and are never ever welcome to play there again. How do i ID the player? I go right back to the same spot after i respawn find the fucker and put a hole in his face or neck. Oh and he will call that hit for sure.
I should note that i will put 2 or 3 shots center mass the seccond time roundad then deliver the face/neck shot after the blatant no call cor a seccond time cause hey he could have not felt the hit the first time around.
It should also be noted that i advise hosts and field owners of my practice befor i play if they advise me against it i respect their call. It is there field after all.

Whats wrong with harassing stubborn targets with multiple rounds to soft tissue, while everyone else gets 1 or 2 in the legs or gear?

Wearing numbered flags makes the finger pointing easier, and if you allow accusations under the safety of anonymity it becomes an all too attractive excuse for whiny brats and their cohorts; a new problem has developed. As you get to know people, not numbers, you learn who needs the just the one-two; and who needs the three-four-five-six-seven-eight and nine.

When it comes to dishonorable pig-dogs; expect no quarter, and none shall be given. Tag them multiple times whenever possible and then move on; you've won. If they tag you, or you get roiled about their play style; you've lost.

Ask your friend how many of those guys in multicam and helmets went home with holes in their faces (prety much all of em who werent wearing face pro.
Because that group was 1 known player on ASC and plus 19 we the staff has decided no more plus 1's this way it is easier to keep track of who is who and who gets banned. A few of them including their "leader" (i say it like that cause he is the guy who said me plus 19)
After that they played once more. Called their hits and packed up and left. If they come again they will all have to make ASC accounts so they can be held responsible for their actions. If they do cheat and are id'd they will be sent home.easiest thing to do is call yourself out. Grab your kill rag walk right up to the fucker and get a good look make sure you know who he is ask him his name. Dont touch him dont yell at him dont call him names and report it to GC ghe rest will be dont by them. Remember we as players and volunteers and hosts all want to have fun chasing cheaters and kicking folks out sucks just as badly for us as for the ones who know they hit someone who isnt calling hits.we all want honest respectfull players on the field cause hell when we get the time we like to pop on the field for a skirm or two as well.

http://images.wikia.com/adventuretim.../8/8c/Nope.gif

That looks like a tall glass of NOPE

500fps isn't a solution. The logic isn't even sound. You assume the people who are cheating at 350fps are more resistant to pain, but will be somehow crippled at 500fps. It's just punishing everyone who calls it at 350fps.

And cheating isn't an excuse for being a dick. If they're blatantly not calling hits, then sure they deserve a few good face shots, but I'm not going to sink to that level, it's unsportsmanlike.
Some rulesets have this written, and for others it's an unwritten rule, that players will not intentionally aim for people's faces. It's common courtesy. Regardless of whether or not that person is being an ass, it's no excuse for you to be breaking rules either.
Now that being said, there are other, more sportsmanlike alternatives. The inner thighs usually hurt more and longer than face shots.

The one thing I've found has NEVER solved the problem, or ever helped the problem, is calling someone's hits for them. I've never seen a situation in which a player yelled at someone to call their hits, and that person called themselves out.

But it's completely different if you do it politely: "Hey, such and such, you've been hit man". It's happened to me, and I've nicely asked others to call it, and guess what? Works every time. No hard feelings, no resentment.

If we're talking about deterrents, having visible embedded admins at claybank worked great. If we got calls around an area, one of us would go there and all of a sudden no more complaints!

If we're talking about catching cheaters, then invisible embedded admins work great. Just have the admin flag on your back so your team can see you, but not the other.

wow was planning taking our guys to the gibson but ....... where was game control i know some of them, they are good guys. hectic bump us with team names of the cheaters and did anyone involved walk up and say hey pal dont know if you noticed but thems markes aint sketers they're bb welts. mabey even sign language them with dill hole your hit. lol sad sorry just don't want this to mark the location it looks fn great and we will be there to play soon.

Cheaters who wer id'd wer removed promtly asked not to return and are on the ban list.
The large group who could not be id due to ths fact they wer all dressed like clones of eachother wer pulled aside and advised that if it continiued they would be banned as a group.
Their leader/translator talked to them. They played one more game without issue and left. They will no longer be able to sign up if they dont have their own ASC names (noone will) and they will be watched closely.

As for the faceshot thing.
I did suggest others dont do this and gave the ultimate solution for IDing cheaters. Just walk right up have a good look ask for a name and say nothing else. Take your info to game controll.

If you witness Cheating.. and don't take direct and immediate action by walking over to the offending player and asking if they felt the hit, and pointing out that they have made an error in Judgment. They you are just as responsible for the proliferation of bad behavior as the offending player is.

Also in my experience as a Game host .. most incidents of "cheating" are simply people not getting shot enough. Fire for effect.. engage the target, and continue to engage until that target calls hit. Give your buddy the benefit of the doubt and shoot him again.

Best quote I've read so far.:D

PS. When I get a chance to meet some of you on the field I fully give you permission to properly light me up if I seem to not call a hit.

When in doubt, call hit. It's all just for fun anyway.

This rule is always stressed everywhere. "when in doubt call OUT!"
it is the folks who are blatant we are talking about. They do exist but with proper policing they dont last long. I think we had two folks sent home and banned on sunday.
Hopefully anyone else who considers cheating will see the example made of them and just play by the rules like the rest of us

so you are willing to cause someone a permanent injury because he's being unsportsmanlike by shooting him in the face?

I don't care if you think he should be wearing face protection and it's his fault if he isn't. You are taking potentially a weapon with what can be seen as intent to injure to force that guy to call a hit.

That's a dick move, and that's dangerous and you're asking for a violent confrontation if not legal if you keep that shit up. What if you mistakenly shoot the guy in face that didn't genuinely feel the hit? What if you break some teeth? Are you going to pay for his dental? That's a can of worms there that brings you down below the level of a cheater.

He didn't feel it? he didn't call it? shoot somewhere soft that isn't going to do anything permanent. If he flinches and still doesn't call it, then you confront him about it, you don't escalate the situation by intentionally causing harm.

This is a game of sportsmanship and honor, where is that when you intentionally shoot someone in the face?

Make the nametags mandatory and/or apply tape on players and write their callsigns on it with marker.
Simple,cheap and can save time and games.

Wow apparently people thought I was serious in suggesting 500fps minimum... Yes cheaters are annoying but how many sports are there that don't have cheaters?

There is no need to shoot people in the face.. the thigh hurts plenty as well

This is how "cheating" normally plays out..

You shoot a guy.. see the bb hit a bounce off him.. then you move on to shoot someone else .. and the first guy turns and shoots you.

who is at fault here? YOU ARE because you assumed that the guy you shot felt it.. and you did not confirm that the target was down before moving on.


This is how it should play out..

You see the guy,, and you begin to shoot at him.. and you continue to shoot him until such time as he calls hit and puts his hand up and lowers his gun. At this point you KNOW he is hit.


This exact situation played out just this past weekend..

I had a short squad on the move through a forest road.. we took fire from the right side.. we turned and assaulted in the direction of the fire and found and shot the shooter. Then almost instantly another shooter opened up to our left. Again we turned to the fire and assaulted. I was in the advance with a guy to the left and right of me, we all saw a guy hunkered down by a tree and we all engaged him. He did not move. I was shouting LOUD to assault and move through the contact and we had 3 submachine guns firing at the same time at this guy, it was LOUD. We did not hear him calling hit.. he was... but he was not moving and he continued to have his weapon pointed in the direction of the rest of the squad.

We continued to POUR fire on him.. till finally he screamed HIT HIT loud enough ( at this point we were pretty close to him .. within 20 feet ) and raised his hand... At this Obvious indication of his condition we stopped firing.

He was in that moment, pretty mad at us.. he probably got hit with 20 rounds or more. But I explained that we were not certain he was hit, as he continued to hold a threatening posture and we did not hear him call hit.
There was doubt .. and when there is doubt there is no doubt you need to shoot more.

If you take things in this way.. you encounter practically no "Cheating" but you do deal with a few people who are mad for getting shot at a game that is about getting shot ( kinda like complaining about getting wet at a swim meet)

IN the bush continuing to shoot at someone who should already be dead- just gives away your position, cheaters suck and should not be tolerated -Stop the game get to the bottom of it.

not in this case.. we were assaulting .. everyone knew where we were

and how do you know who "should be dead" they are not hit till they call hit.. people should not be given the option to shrug a hit.. it's hard to shrug em if they don't stop.

Most people who end up feeling cheated.. did it to themselves by assuming that the other guy felt the hit. If this was real you would not stop shooting till that threat goes down and stays down.

This is a game of honour, you must operate under the presumption that the other guy is as honourable as you are, that if provided with the proper stimulus they will perform in the appropriate way. You job is to provide the appropriate stimulus.

I have witnessed cheating.. we all have but what a lot of people call cheating is actually just someone who did not feel the hit.. and another person who assumed they did.

Again lurking. I wasnt suggesting this was the best course of action and stated what the correct course should be. This team in paticular that we werdealing with was a super pain in the ass. Also i do assume they didnt feel the hit and give them the benifate of the doubt. Take the hit go respawn and return to the same location and shoot em again. I put 3-5 shots on the target i put em in the chest in the shoulder in the hand only to be shot at again. If the neck or side or leg was available to shoot at i would have used that but all that was available was half a chest one arm shoulder and hand and a helmet and half a face. So what is the soft spot to shoot? The face and what happens with one shot. A loud call of hit. I was aiming to prove my point that they wer blatantly not calling their hits. And i was proven right on 3 seperate players.

Seen this kind of behavior before as well in groups that seem to have different standards as to what a hit is.

In this case I attempt behavior modification using the PAIN=WRONG method.

Exactly what i was tryin to achieve once it hurt them they called no problem for fear of being hurt again. I was the only one on my team rocking full ACU and after one shot to the face they wer sure to call every hit i sent at the cause they knew what would likely happen if they didnt call. The team in question has been entirely banned from ultimate airsoft and it is becoming prety obvious they are just going to continue to be an ongoing problem and most likely wont be welcom at the field again.
The same sort of thing happens often when im sniping. Ill take a shot way out at 300feet and because its only one BB the player will look at where theywer hit and readjust their cover as to not get hit again. Through the scope you can clearly see the reaction and you know you got the kill. So you throw another confirmed kill in your log and get closer. And as Lurking suggests you shoot em someplace a lil more tender. I like the hand,neck inner thigh or side under the arm. Or one of my personal favorite is when folks have full face protection is right in the goggles even tho they dont feel it you almost always get em to scream "holy shit!" or something along those lines that is always hard for them to shrug off.

know the venue, know the people and things are usually ok...

read the AAR for games at fields your interested in one day playing at in the future...

for instance, last year's arms festival in wasaga the AAR had some not so pleasant stories, and thus I didnt really care what they had planned for this last one but I wasnt going.

thats the great thing about airsoft in Ontario, theres lots of fields and no reason to have to settle with playing at fields with cheaters

done that at UA on the last game i will ever play there... guy came around a corner through 3 guys shooting at him. i was across in the next building and shot him in the chest and arms... wouldn't call hit and kept moving forward killing my team.. so i started rapid firing and tracking downwards until i was shooting right into his sack.. even then it took 5 solid hits to the balls before he had enough and limped away bitching like a brat. hope i ruined his chance of reproducing.

it's ridiculous

Terminators at Ultimate Aisoft. - YouTube

solution is flipping the selector to full auto.

your suggestion made me remember this
SWAT vs SEAL in Airsoft CQB Competition - YouTube

APD Team in Airsoft Tournament Davao Lock & Load 4 - YouTube

Meh, mark me down as +1 to "give them the benefit of the doubt, then switch to FA". I don't see why people have get so ignorant about calling hits, especially if you're playing games with respawn. I know I called a couple hits on the weekend that were most likely ricochets off nearby cover taking fire, but I give it the benefit of the doubt.

The guy who was shooting me in the back and chirping at me while I was walking off is a different story, though.

These guys need a ref for each player. Seems like they keep the trigger pulled in full auto with high cap magazines non-stop winding. They must have over 10 high caps on their vests for each game.

If someone came out with a 10,000 round magazine, they would use it.

Holy blind fire batman.

Doesn't always work. I was at a game last year were I shot a small burst at a players ciras. 5 shots center mass didn't call it. 10 rounds in the legs didn't call it 20 rounds on the boots hands and gun didn't call it. All together I prob shot the schmuck 50 times and he just kept shooting back. Simply lighting somebody the fuck up doesn't work. I agree with the team assigned admin worked great for the games I attended when there were in use.

Next time just beat them with the 249 Steve lol

Or I could throw a smoke grenade at his head. I hear I'm good at that lol.

Are you guys discriminating just because they don't play milsim?
That's about as ridiculous as real steel shooters discriminating against us because we don't use real guns and shoot at static targets lol

I agree it looks like someone just gave stereotype paintballers airsoft guns for the day though.... I find it really odd that it seems none of them ever seem to get hit in either video despite thousands of rounds flying around....

nothing beats a public shaming... if you make them jump, twitch, flinch or yell enough, the players around them will be like "dude... you going to call that?" and they should, sometimes they have a better vantage point to see it cause the guy who got hit might have a case of tunnel vision/target fixation. I've seen so many people get so into the moment they miss EVERYTHING.

But, if the guy is surrounded by his fellow chums who all cheat... well then you're SOL there... cheaters gonna cheat. Then you call the game marshals.

I think that was his point.

no hes discriminating against the 2 videos full of blatantly cheating assholes who dont call as they are getting lit with streams of BBs, and calling out others hits as BBs are bouncing off themselves

Start with good ingredients and get good results.

I found there is a major difference between indoor games CQB blast and shoot, vs outdoor many hour games that are designed to have space.

Most of the the indoor wide open walk on are simply NOT filtered. Over time, you can try to filter in quasi methods, but when you are running something that basically anyone can show, you get what you get.

Refs and game control will help, but I can tell you, its still not a solution. It is a form of control but often when they step in, its AFTER the altercation.

Last winter we ran CLOSED games at UA. This came after the flare up of the jackass Asian dudes decided to show up and severely ruin an evening with well respected players.

Would "game control" help that? Nope. Not one bit.

So we rented UA, over and over and guess what. Zero issues. We had gentlemen engagement distances, but it certainly was not like we had the training wheels on. We WERE shooting each other and it was intense.

There was NO game control. 20-24 guys in a place that was not massive.

I think clamping down on the people who are aloud in is the absolute key to success. Is it easier to "fill" the place, ie PAY THE BILLS?

NO

Look at my field. This Saturday we have a game. We only have 21 people. Most of the times we have 30-40.

Its an ASS PAIN to put this together, and let me tell you, I could snap my finger and open the place up to ANYONE and flood our field.

But the controls in place, to ensure the people coming are not assholes, is prohibitive to populating the place.

Its funny, I never got a pm from the Asian jackasses to play here. Wonder why?


You cant have it both ways.

Only the shooter knows he got his target out, but there is no reason why more people don't put cams on their guns to document their hits for any game.

You can buy a $10 camcroder on ebay that even at 720x480 more than enough resolution to capture all hits.

Look at CQB city in California. There are so many players using cams, the footages are combined for a great video of each game.

If the team continues to cheat, just post the videos. I got one on video where the target got hit over 10 times in tender spots, and he just shrug it off and kept playing.

No sense complaining when video is your best witness. Why don't UA random mount cams on players that always complain that their targets never call out???

I agree with Trevor as I played in all of those closed games at UA.

My solution if I know its blatant: call myself out, pull my rag and put my gun up. I then walk over to where the guy is I know who is cheating and KINDLY ask for his name. If I get it, I inform game control. If I don't, well, taking the time to walk up and ask has allowed me to get a good idea of what he looks like so I can report it to game control anyways. The key with that solution is being calm and not losing your shit on the person. Simply ID the person and walk away.

Some people have gotten defensive when I have asked for their name and I simply ask for it again, calmly. If they absolutely refuse, again, I have now visually IDed the person so I then go to game control and explain what has happened. Generally works most of the time and by being cool and collected you are giving no bait for conflict.

Not always true. One Wasaga game years ago, someone was shooting at me and yelling "You're dead, I hit you, your out, etc...". So I stood up and walked forwards in the open 10 feet and told him his shots were dropping 12 feet shy of where I was. He kept shooting but the BB's were still landing in front of my feet. Needless to say, Wildcard flanked him and shot him in the ass.

That same kid or one of his friends, at a later round, then proceeded to try and hide behind a log fence/barricade 20-25 feet from us where Wildcard and I dumped a dozen plus 40's at him, and we know he was hit each time as he flinched from impact and moved around cowering in fear. Unfortunately for him, his cover wasn't complete cover as it had big gaps to shoot through, but he continued to refuse to call his hits, so we kept shooting.

Wish i had a years supply of 40mm's to lug around lol

scaring the fuck out of cheating noobs with bigger, better weapons and tactics is always fun. :P

The shooter and his camcorder will confirm the hit. If the bbs were landing in front of your feet, his video will show it. Because he did not have a camcorder, his shots could hitting you and he couldn't prove it.

No excuse not to have a camcorder. This one cost $10 on ebay, 80 deg fov 720x480 resolution, 30fps.

The very first post I have for Hill437:
(edited out stuff that is not relevant)



__________________________________________________ ____________

LOCATION NEAR HAMILTON/BURLINGTON

Been working on a new field and the concept is a bit different. This property is private, and the games are held by players who have vouched for each other for code of ethic, calling hits, respect.


Cont.....

.. If you have an interest in playing, and carry a respectful history within the ASC you can PM me for information.


If you have interest post "in" on here and pm me and we can discuss if this field is of interest and lines up with your goals.
__________________________________________________ _________



Amazing how stating the above, is a first check valve. I can say, most of the guys who wound up PM'ing were so easy to verify they were cool it was not funny.

Keep in mind, I have a lot of players who are not even coming from the ASC world either. Players who don't even know/care about ASC. Still, pretty easy to screen if you take the time.

I am in the middle of working with 8 brand new players right now. Unfortunately though, I am having to spend a bit of time going back and forth on al the gear requirements etc first, but meh...its worth it.

Simple Rule... NO ONE may refuse to provide any other player with their full legal name and registered nickname

refusing to disclose your identity to anyone who asks is grounds for ejection from the game. no second chance not later disclosure.. if asked your name you give it.. or you are gone.

It is anonymity that empowers cowards and cheats .. Those of weak character and corrupt morals shrink from the light of day.

You have exactly one reputation, if you stood to lose it because everyone knows who you are.. the behavior would improve overall.

I have a couple of those I use for autocross... they're neat cause you can put them just about anywhere to film.. under the car, in the wheel well, tape it to a spoke on the wheel... etc...

problem is, the 10$ ones on ebay are factory rejects of ghost shift units, they are of definite inferior quality to the ones sold at retail closer to 70$. Mine all have the same issue in that they stop recording or can't write beyond a certain memory location on the memory card at random intervals.

I used it all day at this event and only got 1 video that was the proper length: 2011 MCO AutoX Jun 12 run 4 mini camera test - YouTube

when they work though, they're pretty good. hard to see something the size of a BB though.

exactly

I have that exact one but not the ebay knock off. tracking the BB's at range is not going to be easy to determine a hit or miss

the problem is that unless the conditions and lighting are perfect, even an HD camera will have issues catching the BBs hit... look at scout the doggie's videos on YT... how often do you see BBs hitting targets down range? You see incoming pretty good, but even in dynamo's video you can't see any BBs flying let alone hit someone.

+1
I had a contour 720p, and I still couldn't see my BB's past about 80ft
The only way you could see hits beyond that was from target reaction and that's not definitive.
Gotta do like that one sniper on youtube and have a side mount scope with a camera mounted infront lol

Ya, I watched the video on the crazy Asian guys on youtube the next day. After the UA debacle.

That clearly was effective in fixing the fucked up night for the people who went paid and was pissed, and of course all the future games they continued to attend elsewhere.

But the video was great.

(cough)


You guys realize there is a world outside of ASC right?

.

What!?! Where? I assure you i have never heard or such a place! *insert sarcasim*

I meant, you can video ALL you want. These guys DO NOT subscribe to ASC and merely use it as a tool to "show up"

If the place is not clear that they are NOT welcome, then expect what you get.

I remember one venue at SOF (now gone) that even posted "EVERYONE IS WELCOME TO COME"

Serious? WTF?

oh that's right....that's for MONEY

And it was around that time the bat shit crazy guy surfaced and wanted to play there with a pellet gun. Yes, the one that shoots lead.
He tried getting into my field, but failed the smell test.

He was later arrested off a golf course in Hamilton-wielding a knife.

The point is YOU HAVE TO SCREEN. Will you lose money as a host? Maybe. But maybe not in the long run, and life will be less stressful.

Remember, you are simply screening the 5% guys. The rest WONT COME as they wont even try to go to your place as they know they are not allowed in. The vast majority of players here on ASC are GOOD.

Its the "COME ONE COME ALL" places they say.....

"OK!!! WE PLAY YES???" (often with the week command of the English language)

I was just bein silly.
I think for indoor places like UA and others its alot harder for them to turn forlks away cause at the end of the day they are running a company and have a lease/rent, hydro, gas and water to pay for along with staff and so on. I know the team i was talking about at the gibson is alrdy banned from UA and id imagine that is because it was either loose prety much the rest of their regulars or get rid of those 20 or 30 guys.
Fortunately the gibson is just sitting there racking up expense whether we play there or not so making money off of it (tho it will help to offset the costs of the owners) isnt the priority. The staff there have no issue with turning fokks away and 2 wer sent packing on the day of the test run. (one for full auto fire and i think the other was for not calling hits) and prety sure after a lil more discussion the team in question will also be put on the not welcome list.

I'm including this rule in all of our future games.

Safety is a concern of course but couldn't there be a premium for letting folks like that on the field?

I mean who wouldn't want to reminisce about having shot someone who later tried to hijack a golf cart to Cuba?

I'm selective about who I let play at my place.. and over the years I have cultivated a reputation to ensure the cheats and scoundrels don't even bother to show up.

I have thrown people out a few times, and it always sends a clear message to everyone, screw around, ignore the rules and you're gone.

I'm certain that the same reputation prevents perfectly good and honest players from coming.. and that is the cost of being selective.

Places that throw the doors wide and let bad players participate without censure or enforcement will end up with a venue populated entirely with all the rejects and losers who no one else lets play at their venue. Good, honest people would rather sit at home than rub elbows with cheaters and scoundrels.

This is one of the key problems with walk on pay to play places, to keep the doors open and the place operating you need cashflow, cashflow comes from players playing.. so you are loath to come down too heavy handed lest you turn off your revenue tap.

While I like the intention with what you're trying to do, I really do but I'm not a race car or a marathon runner while playing airsoft. So thanks, but no thanks. The short term solution for cheaters is to go to games with reputable players and venues that don't have cheaters. At least that's why I try my best to do. I don't support venues that I've been to where I've encountered multiple instances of cheating without anything done about it. I don't have the patience for these people especially at games I host. It ruins the experience for everybody involved if that's allowed.

The long term solution is to do what Brian does is have venues with owners a low tolerance for that sort of garbage. While the overwhelming majority of the airsoft community is very honourable you're always going to need to weed out the bad apples. It's a given regardless of the event just some events/venues its much more blatantly obvious and rampant than others.

^^i dont get what this is relating to?? Must be too sleepy

What I think he's saying is set higher community standards from the start - don't start with players of the lowest common denominator (you know, possessing a pulse, still able to fog a mirror, and possessing $20.00 in hand, and little else..) and go from there .. you set the bar too low, and the games will generally not attract players of the calibre that you really want - those "quality" players that tend to avoid those sort of games - the 'once bitten, twice shy - now avoiding potential BS games in the future' principle applies for them, when they see similarly set up games appearing. Time is money for some folks - they aren't going to take the chance on wasting either on a game that won't meet their minimum standards.

I'm guessing you're referring to my marathon runner/race car quote. They are issued race bibs and numbers to help identify them easier. I hope that makes more sense.

http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1b60dfce.jpg
http://runningmag.wpengine.com/wp-co...-in-Berlin.jpg
http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/...ps39e3de8d.jpg

I m pretty sure I mentioned this before, but your team is obviously welcome at Hill437

99% sure I mentioned this in the past but just confirming.

Sunday, August 11th is the next one.

Thanks for the invite Trev will let the guys know and see if a few of us can make it for a game there sometime. I always like trying out new fields.

My issue with this is with all those out there who think they are the best players on earth and hit people everytime they shoot at someone. I just wouldn't appreciate being "investigated" when a player called me out for not calling a hit when his bbs were off target. Don't get me wrong I still like the idea.

But that's the name of the game. In sports everyone is subject to scrutiny of some description, and everyone should submit to it, this is where having a good reputation and honorable play come hand in hand.

No one is going to make a long standing judgement on you for one hit call. But if you get known as that guy who is impossible to hit, or constantly can't feel his hits, people will let you know.

I've played with guys close to the team who couldn't feel hits because of all the shit they were wearing, so we mentored them knowing they we honorable people, and got them to strip all the useless crap off their bodies (armor, padding, etc...) and now they run light and fast and can call their hits much more often.

If I'm intentionally not calling my hits I can't see why I'd follow that rule, leading back to the initial problem of "I know it's one of the X number of guys using identical kit". Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a bad idea (I'd actually say I'm in favor of it), just perhaps one that doesn't completely fix the problem. Either way, just my 2 cents on the topic.

It's more about creating an environment that is hostile to cheaters.

Cockroaches scuttle away when you turn on the lights, All I'm saying is , lets turn on the lights.

This. A million times over. Now that my club has registered members with faces to names, the cheatclowns have never returned.